Gun room security

[toddk]

Okay, I am going to be finishing my basement, and building my man cave. Part of this project will be my gun room.
I want a secure room, and will be putting in a steel door, with steel frame, and a quality deadbolt. three sides of the room will be against the concrete walls, so I'm not worried about those sides...
Edit: The steel door will be a regular door made out of steel. Think commercial door. Not a vault door.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with the 4th wall. 2x4 framed wall with drywall on the face. I was thinking about putting 3/4" plywood under the drywall, but I'm wondering if I can do more without resorting to steel plates. (Too expensive.)

So what I guess i'm asking for is suggestions for differing levels of security/ strength, that I can research and figure out what I can afford. Personal experiences welcome as well as "What ifs".

Thanks

 

[Bendrx]

...concrete block.

 

[Arm America]

Steel mesh between the drywall and the studs,
man-bars where the ducting enters the room.

Thats some of what the Secret Service and BATF uses.

 

[toddk]

Steel mesh between the drywall and the studs,
man-bars where the ducting enters the room.

Thats what the Secret Service and BATF uses.

What kind of steel mesh? Do you have some specs? The only kind i'm familiar with is what we used in concrete driveways, and that was soft steel.

Concrete blocks is a possibility...

 

[foxtrotridge]

.

 

[jbhummer2]

I would say concrete block for the wall. I have also see chain link fence fastened to the inside of a studded wall or even rebar ran through the 2x4s.

 

[Rookie]

The vault doors I have seen have at least six inch wide frames. My plans are to build a 2x4 wall eight inches on center, glue and screw 3/4 plywood to the studs, staple sheets of expanded steel to the plywood, and then glue and screw another 3/4 sheet of plywood. Add 1/2 inch drywall to both sides and you're at six inches...

 

[lane440]

make a hidden enrance / secret room .

 

[red_zr24x4]

I fastened 2x12's horizontally between the studs, then finiished the inside of the room with plywood screewed about every 6".

 

[christman]

Honestely, if you are using wood studs at all the rest doesn't matter. On a basement floor I'm assuming your gonna tapcon the studs in to fasten to the concrete. Or use straps or glue. Either way, any normal sized sledge would make short work of your wall to knock it off its resting place. If you truly want a more secure room, do what others have said and use steel. It is expensive, but build it a piece at a time. At the very least use form poured concrete with rebar all the way around, then on the inside of that build a stud wall with more poured concreted in between each stud all the way to the ceiling. Don't forget the lead blanket wrap.

 

[snapping turtle]

The very first thing you need to do is to make the basement 100% waterproof. I can't remember how many nice collectable guns I have seen that were stored in basements and got wet when the sump pump failed or the power went out during a storm. Nice black walnut turned compleately black and nice blue steel rusted.

The vault rooms I have seen built commercially are sweet. Hardened concrete with rebar floor walls and ceiling. I had to put a security camera in the Hoosier park casino vault and It took 2 hilti bits and about 1 hour of time to drill one hole 1 inch wide and 12 inches deep in that vault. I think the concrete mix is much different than most. Same concrete that they use in the federal prisions. I know there it had to be 54 degrees or warmer out to pour that concrete.

As far as a vault room in residential construction even cement block can be cut/knocked out quickly. I would vote for a vault and inside the vault some nice safes. Multiple layers of security, Video cams. Security alarms, Big dog, Ect.

Just getting a large fire safe into a basement can be a challange.

 

[grimor]

Don't forget the ceiling, you don't want someone cutting or chopping through the upstair floor and dropping to your gun room.

what's directly above it? I'm thinking hidden batman pole...

 

[lon]

make a hidden enrance / secret room .

I think thats a good way to go if you aren't building the room as new construction, and a good deal cheaper. If you did it right I think your stuff would be almost as secure as having a vault room, assuming you kept it a secret.

Hide A Door - Secret Doors and Passageways - Welcome!

Of coarse the ultimate would be a hardened room with a vault door concealed behind a hidden door.

 

[Eddie]

Honestely, if you are using wood studs at all the rest doesn't matter. On a basement floor I'm assuming your gonna tapcon the studs in to fasten to the concrete. Or use straps or glue. Either way, any normal sized sledge would make short work of your wall to knock it off its resting place. If you truly want a more secure room, do what others have said and use steel. It is expensive, but build it a piece at a time. At the very least use form poured concrete with rebar all the way around, then on the inside of that build a stud wall with more poured concreted in between each stud all the way to the ceiling. Don't forget the lead blanket wrap.

One measure I take is to lock up my tools that could be used to break into the gun room inside the gun room. A lot of thiefs don't carry the heavy stuff with them; they go door to door looking for a house where no one is home. Once they get inside they might use available tools to break into safes and rooms. It won't do you any good to build a secure room if any thief can pick up your Black and Decker Macho III off the toolbench and break down your wall.

 

[Astrocreep]

There have been some good suggestions in this thread.
OP, your idea for the wall that the vault door will sit in is ok. That's what I would put in front of a double-thickness filled and rebar reinforced cinderblock wall.

Remember, if this is in your basement, anyone trying to break into it isn't going to wake the neighbors. It needs an automated motion sensor inside and out.
You can get those pretty cheap. They should be set to notify yourself or authorities and not just make a ton of noise. I've heard that there are even apps that allow you to monitor the system or cameras from a smartphone while you're out.

As others have said, a determined thief is going to be able to break in. My best thought to contribute would be:
Make them cut through your steel/plywood/drywall wall then discover over 1' of filled cinderblock they need to break down. Then get nailed when they set off the motion alarm and are too tired to run away.



Don't forget the ceiling above. It needs something nasty.

A thought: look into getting steel panels cut with 1/2" holes along the edges so you can lag them into the joists...
Will be heavy as all get out, but tough to defeat I imagine.


Concealing the entrance is a fantastic idea. Building a shelf system that swings away from it shouldn't be too complicated.
Just make sure it doesn't leave obvious track marks on the floor or ceiling.

Good luck!

 

[drgnrobo]

Altough it is more expensive ,I would consider 16 guage steel studs 8 "on center with a plywood called ironboard ( treated lumber) with 3/4 drywall on both sides with an additional layer of mesh attached to the studs ( cant remember guage weight )this would be extremely difficult to get through & is a application that some stores use with an exterior wall , but even concrete blocks can be smashed with a sledge . A reinforced concrete wall would be your best bet in my opinion w/ rebar ran every 6"to 8 " in a checkerboard pattern.The ceiling could have 1/8 steel panels attached to your trusses for added security .These are actual applications that I ran into during some construction builds (residential & commercial) Also have seen a fake wall of peg board in front of a panic room that had a secret door that operated by pushing in a 1/2 an inch in a certain area to expose the reinforced access behind it,never would have known it was there but foreman said it needed a suspended ceiling & let me look for it a 1/2 hour before showing me where it was (nice guy)

 

[boileralum]

Concrete blocks filled with concrete as you build the wall.

 

[45pro]

Concrete blocks filled with concrete as you build the wall.

Plus rebar, it makes a huge difference when trying to knock a concrete wall down.

However i think the best security for a safe room is it being hidden so noone knows its there.

And with it being in a basement you will need a massive dehumidifier.

 

[toddk]

Okay... FYI the basement will have vapor barrier, hvac run into it, backup sump pump with battery backup.
So humidity, and Water I have covered.

I will definitely have a fire safe, in the room, elevated for any rising water issues.
Above the room, is our bedroom, and I think a Fireman pole would be vetoed by the Wife.

I think some have misunderstood the door I am installing, I mean a steel door like the back door of a restaurant that leads to the alley... Not a vault door. Will edit the Original to reflect that.

I do like the idea of hiding the door, I'm thinking a pegboard etc that swings outwards, while the door swings inwards... (Definitely like the idea of hidden entrance.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Plus rebar, it makes a huge difference when trying to knock a concrete wall down.

However i think the best security for a safe room is it being hidden so noone knows its there.

And with it being in a basement you will need a massive dehumidifier.

but if people do this they need to make sure their basement floors concrete is thick enough to handle the weight strain of all that concrete and rebar. but I agree if your gonna do it then do it right and this way!
even if you have to build it in sections, do it right or you will just be wasting $$. also, i wouldnt post about it on the internet (INGO) Its always nice to see pics and hear stories, but everytime I do I always do a FACE PALM! because I worry about those people getting broke into. I think steel plates on the interior is the way to go as well. that way once they get through the rebar and concrete, they still have more to go. NOTHING is theif proof if they want in bad enough, but you can slow them down. I would invest in a good actual SAFE door though and then a metal fire door in front of that. its also easy to waterproof the room, but make sure you have it vented and temp controled as well as a seperate dehumidifier in the room. just my 2-cents. im not an expert but I have done a lot of research in this area from many who are experts. dont forget the ceiling too. because as soon as they find out your wall has rebar in it they are gonna go up stairs and start ripping out your floor. they make lightweight concrete for ceilings and you can put steel in it too. dont forget a good closed circuit camera system. not wireless!!!!! NOT WIRELESS!!!! then make sure it runs to a DVR in the attic into another safe or somewhere into a safe where it takes even more time to get too, and where they cant use leverage to open it.