Guns at polling places?

[mrortega]

If the polling place has a school or day care attached you are out of luck. (We do need a test case to see what the court would rule as to where a "church" stops and a "school" starts. Anyone? Anyone?)

 

[ATM]

If the polling place has a school or day care attached you are out of luck. (We do need a test case to see what the court would rule as to where a "church" stops and a "school" starts. Anyone? Anyone?)

We don't need a test case, we need a stupid law repealed.

If it houses a school on the property it matters little that it is also a church.

 

[wizardfitz]

my polling place is the Courthouse in Franklin so its a no go for me> Had tro go back and lock it in the truck for the primaries.

 

[mrortega]

We don't need a test case, we need a stupid law repealed.

If it houses a school on the property it matters little that it is also a church.

Agreed but it is very unlikely that allowing licensed carriers to carry in a school could pass right now. I'd like to see something that sets a church aside even if it's on the same campus with a school. Most Catholic and many other parochial schools are on the same property as the church. Something making a distinct demarcation line between what is and is not a school might be possible. For example, not-a-school could be defined as the church building proper, the ground that it sits on and any parking area which is necessary to use in order to attend church services even if that lot is also used for parking for a school.

 

[Miketodd]

I just want to make sure people aren't confusing the definition of a "School" with some of the programs at a church. My church has a "Preschool" that is private and is for pre-K (I.E. 4 year olds). To my understanding, it is not covered under the I.C. code and therefore I can carry. Also when "Sunday School" is going on, it is actually just programs for children and teenagers.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[ATM]

Agreed but it is very unlikely that allowing licensed carriers to carry in a school could pass right now...

Maybe we could bus in some braver or smarter representatives from the states that don't support such asinine restrictions.

 

[ATM]

I just want to make sure people aren't confusing the definition of a "School" with some of the programs at a church. My church has a "Preschool" that is private and is for pre-K (I.E. 4 year olds). To my understanding, it is not covered under the I.C. code and therefore I can carry. Also when "Sunday School" is going on, it is actually just programs for children and teenagers.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Have you read the IC? The "Sunday School" is clearly not a school by definition, but you'd better be certain about that preschool not being included - the cost of being wrong is a possible felony.

 

[Miketodd]

The IC States a "School is any grades K-12". Since it is a PreSchool (I.E. Pre-K.) I am almost certain it doesn't count. I have asked the Pastor about it and he said as far as he knows, it doesn't count as a school. However, I will dive more deeply into this and not carry until than. You kind of have me on the edge a little bit.

 

[ATM]

The IC States a "School is any grades K-12". Since it is a PreSchool (I.E. Pre-K.) I am almost certain it doesn't count. I have asked the Pastor about it and he said as far as he knows, it doesn't count as a school.

Please cite the code you're referring to.

I'm talking about this one:

IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.

Yes Pre-School is a school it is illegal to carry I do believe if you have permission you can carry but you better get it in writing and it needs to be the property owner. If I recall correctly...

 

[mrortega]

I just want to make sure people aren't confusing the definition of a "School" with some of the programs at a church. My church has a "Preschool" that is private and is for pre-K (I.E. 4 year olds). To my understanding, it is not covered under the I.C. code and therefore I can carry. Also when "Sunday School" is going on, it is actually just programs for children and teenagers.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I think the key word in IC about day care and pre-school is "licensed." I could be wrong and if you try it and go to jail then eess not my fault, man.

 

[Miketodd]

Yeah, I am trying to find where I saw "Defininition of a school is K-12" but I can't find the thread it was in. I did come across this IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.
So if I get it in writing from the Pastor would it suffice?

 

[mrortega]

Yeah, I am trying to find where I saw "Defininition of a school is K-12" but I can't find the thread it was in. I did come across this IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.
So if I get it in writing from the Pastor would it suffice?

It's a little hard to figure out who can authorize something. If a public school it would probably have to be the superintendent or the school board. Same with parochial. In the Catholic system nobody can override the bishop. If he gives you a letter of authorization you're solid. But if just the principal of a particular school gives you a letter can they be overridden?

Your pastor might be able to give you a letter if you're trying to be able to carry in the same building as a day care. But what if he doesn't have ultimate authority? I would go to the board that can hire and fire any or everyone in the organization.

 

[Miketodd]

I would imagine it would be the Board of Elders because they dictate what the pastor can and can't do. In our denomination, there is not a person who is over say, districts like a bishop or anything. I will talk to him Sunday and find out. Thanks everyone for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Dead Duck]

Well I just prayed and ask God, and He gave me permission and said I was OK to carry there.
I just figured He was the head honcho anyway, and no doubt - He has the Last Word.

And the First Word.













This Frickin stone tablet is heavy though!

 

[JCatt]

I thought only black panthers were allowed to do this!

 

[eldirector]

Maybe I can help break this down for folks. Feel free to poke holes in this, but I've been research it for a while now:

IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation; these are your typical Public K12 schools. School Corporation is actually defined in IC 20-18-2-16.
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;These are the licensed daycare statutes. 12 is Daycare and 31 is in-home daycare. NOTE: The "required to be licensed" is important, as daycare ministries are NOT required, and therefore are NOT a school. They MAY be licensed, which WOULD make that particular one a school. Check with the Church.
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or Fairly obvious. The private version of the public schools above.
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:Well, this certainly opens up a floodgate. Any 3 or 4 year old that is learning something is suddenly a school, unless they are learning it at a business?
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq. Pretty well defined right here
(ii) A special education preschool program.This is NOT specifically defined in IC anywhere. Pre-school simply means before Kindergarten, and special education seems to always apply to people with disabilities.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.Once again, not well defined. The only other IC for "Development Child Care Programs" is for children with disabilities.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1). So, pretty much anything the school's name is on at all, including parking lots, empty lots, playgrounds, etc....

So, translating this all to English, Schools are:
- K12 Public Schools
- K12 Private Schools
- LICENSED Daycare (in-home or commercial)
- Headstart and any program for little kids with disabilities

Places that are "schools" by common definition, but NOT by IC:
- Colleges and Universities
- Sunday School
- Church Daycare (unless they CHOOSE to be licensed)
- For-profit learning centers (eg: tutoring businesses). Just be cause a young person is learning something, it may not meet the definition in IC.

The big unknown is the "state/local/non-profit that benefits a 3 or 4 year old". What on EARTH is that?

 

[Plumber]

I believe most voter locations you can OC but the schools or even preschools I thoughtg were illagle to carry in OC or CC going to have to check this.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Read "Indiana Handgul Laws" by Indianapolis Attorney Brian Cyiou. He explains the laws in terms you can understand. It's interesting what a "School" consists of in Indiana. He has a newer book "Indiana Firearms Law Reference Manual" but my Library dosen't have it yet.