Hazardous materials

[jgressley2003]

I'm curious why powder and primers are considered hazardous, but assembled ammunition isn't. Can anyone explain why?

 

[oldpink]

I haven't asked the responsible authorities, but my educated guess is that it has to do with the quantity of explosive material in one place and the possibility of an ignition or detonation.
By that, I mean when you have a box of fifty rounds of .357 Magnum loaded ammo, you only have fifty primers that are seated in cartridge cases with a grand total of approximately 1000 grains (1/7 of a pound) of powder in those cases.
The primers in the loaded ammo aren't able to roll around and get detonated, and the total amount of fire or explosion, even if in a fire is very small.
On the other hand, a powder canister of 14 oz or the more common 1 lb has quite a lot of energy in one place.
All modern powder canisters are designed to allow any pressure from ignition to vent, but that's still a lot of heat that can cause secondary problems with the rest of the shipment.
1000 primers detonating all at once in one small space would be quite dangerous.

 

[Drail]

I used to load pallets of freight onto aircraft with a forklift. Try to imagine the result of a pallet of primers going up in close proximity to a large aircraft full of fuel on a flight line filled with other large aircraft also filled with fuel and 5000 gal. fuel trucks running around everywhere. When it comes to this kind of risk - you can't have too many rules or be too cautious. Trust me - some stuff really is "hazardous". Years ago Federal did a test of their packaging methods for primers. One pallet was set off and resulting explosion was heard by residents over 25 miles away. Think about that for a moment. They did a total redesign of their packaging so that one primer detonating will not set off every other primer in the box (definitely a "good idea"). Most of their competitors have not. Primers loaded into cartridges are "protected" by the cartridge case itself. As for the "fee" charged for Hazmat materials - that's nothing more than plain old greed and exploiting an opportunity for profit. And so is the requirement for overnight express delivery of handguns by the shipping companies.

 

[oldpink]

[...]As for the "fee" charged for Hazmat materials - that's nothing more than plain old greed and exploiting an opportunity for profit. And so is the requirement for overnight express delivery of handguns by the shipping companies.

Good details in the rest of your post, but FWIW, I believe the hazmat fee is a result of the DOT imposing some rather onerous regulations and restrictions on the shippers, not the vendors trying to skin you for yet more money.
For example, a UPS truck loaded with a chemical that by itself requires no special precautions now cannot be loaded with a specific other item (primers or powder possibly, but there are thousands of other types of classified hazardous materials) because of danger of ignition, reaction, or other risk when combined.
Having to ship separately from a truck that would have been faster and cheaper because of these restrictions necessarily raises prices and can cause a bit of a shipping delay.
There are other factors, but you get the idea.

 

[d30carls]

I haven't asked the responsible authorities, but my educated guess is that it has to do with the quantity of explosive material in one place and the possibility of an ignition or detonation.
By that, I mean when you have a box of fifty rounds of .357 Magnum loaded ammo, you only have fifty primers that are seated in cartridge cases with a grand total of approximately 1000 grains (1/7 of a pound) of powder in those cases.
The primers in the loaded ammo aren't able to roll around and get detonated, and the total amount of fire or explosion, even if in a fire is very small.
On the other hand, a powder canister of 14 oz or the more common 1 lb has quite a lot of energy in one place.
All modern powder canisters are designed to allow any pressure from ignition to vent, but that's still a lot of heat that can cause secondary problems with the rest of the shipment.
1000 primers detonating all at once in one small space would be quite dangerous.

I have also wondered about this and I agree with most of what you have said 50 rounds is significantly less powder than a pound of powder but what about the bulk packages? I mean you can go online and order 500-1000 rounds of 223 and I know that there is more than 1 pound of powder there not to mention the primers

 

[CountryBoy19]

Good details in the rest of your post, but FWIW, I believe the hazmat fee is a result of the DOT imposing some rather onerous regulations and restrictions on the shippers, not the vendors trying to skin you for yet more money.
For example, a UPS truck loaded with a chemical that by itself requires no special precautions now cannot be loaded with a specific other item (primers or powder possibly, but there are thousands of other types of classified hazardous materials) because of danger of ignition, reaction, or other risk when combined.
Having to ship separately from a truck that would have been faster and cheaper because of these restrictions necessarily raises prices and can cause a bit of a shipping delay.
There are other factors, but you get the idea.

In addition to that the driver of the hazmat vehicle must be certified IIRC (training costs money), the shipper must be certified (training costs money). Hazmat shipping requires additional paperwork & labeling (paperwork and the time to fill it out costs money on both ends, the shipper & the carrier).

 

[Drail]

Just more hoops to jump through - and guess who profits?

 

[OHOIAN]

In addition to that the driver of the hazmat vehicle must be certified

No, he just needs to have a HazMat endorsement on his drivers license.
All of that stuff was taught to us during driver training, before we even get hired by a carrier.
Ammunition is not classified as HazMat because it is not deadly or likely to cause serious injury to people or wildlife if exposed to a fire. It simply pops like pop corn. Not so with powder or primers.

PS
It is just my opinion but, 1 pound of powder should not be HazMat since it poses little threat to safety. Like 1 gallon of bleach is not HazMat but 5 gallons is. Or 1/4 gallon of nitro methane is not but 1 gallon is.

PPS
I have never driven with powder or primers but I have with bleach and nitro a lot.

 

[churchmouse]

I used to load pallets of freight onto aircraft with a forklift. Try to imagine the result of a pallet of primers going up in close proximity to a large aircraft full of fuel on a flight line filled with other large aircraft also filled with fuel and 5000 gal. fuel trucks running around everywhere. When it comes to this kind of risk - you can't have too many rules or be too cautious. Trust me - some stuff really is "hazardous". Years ago Federal did a test of their packaging methods for primers. One pallet was set off and resulting explosion was heard by residents over 25 miles away. Think about that for a moment. They did a total redesign of their packaging so that one primer detonating will not set off every other primer in the box (definitely a "good idea"). Most of their competitors have not. Primers loaded into cartridges are "protected" by the cartridge case itself. As for the "fee" charged for Hazmat materials - that's nothing more than plain old greed and exploiting an opportunity for profit. And so is the requirement for overnight express delivery of handguns by the shipping companies.

I have seen some ridiculous shipping fee's involving Ammo. When questioned the response id "Hazardous" which to me is "Greedy" butt heads.

 

[Speedybruin4]

I am certified and trained in shipping Hazardous materials and part of the mark up goes into additional labeling and packaging requirements for certain products. We do not sell ammo or gunpowder where I work, but I deal with a lot of non-flammable compressed air shocks and similar products. Each of the products we ship require at least 4 extra labels and extra labor to process those through. In addition the training isn't cheap either. I'm pretty sure the company still makes a profit on the hazmat charge, but it isn't as large as one would think or the company would like.