HB1231 passes in house- (Centerfire rifles for deer hunting)

[dudley0]

I agree. I have several HPR to choose from but have always wanted to shoot a deer with my M38 first and then my M44.

With the M44 you have the added bonus of cooking it while you shoot it as well.

 

[avboiler11]

I'm assuming the .243 minimum is due to the fact that nearly all ammo for the multitude of rifles with .224 diameter bores uses either FMJ or varmint bullets.
There are probably a few others out there that would also be suitable for deer, but a cursory check from me indicates that only the Nosler Partition and Barnes TSX in that caliber would be acceptable for deer.
Not saying that you can't kill a deer with a varmint bullet, but no one who understands bullet dynamics would consider using a bullet designed to fragment upon impact for that application.

I've killed two deer in Kentucky with 22 centerfires; one with a 223 Ackley using an 80gr Amax, and another with a 5.56 AR using a 77gr Nosler Custom Comp. Both deer were EXCEEDINGLY dead; the A-Max completely vacated the doe's skull; the 77gr CC entered the skull, severed the spine, tumbled a few times and exited sideways through a neck artery, leaving a hole I could put my thumb into.

Shot placement ALWAYS trumps displacement, with bullet design being runner up; I would have ZERO issues using either above bullet into the boiler room of a 200-class bruiser.

Partition, TSX, TTSX, Nosler BSB, Federal Fusion, Federal TBBC, Mk318, Hornady GMX, and even your basic 55-65gr soft points would do juuuuuust fine.

 

[RMC]

I once killed two trophy bucks with one shot using nothing more than a paperclip and a rubber band. The paperclip hit the 1st buck in the butt and he jumped right into a low branch and broke his neck, the other one died laughing.

I'm beginning to think if so many are going to use calibers that shouldn't be allowed and bullets that fall apart on impact then perhaps the DNR should do the animals a favor and leave things as they were.

 

[Meena]

With the M44 you have the added bonus of cooking it while you shoot it as well.

True. I wonder what a CO would say about finishing one off with the bayonet? Just kidding

 

[dudley0]

*snicker*

 

[Yeah]

only the Nosler Partition and Barnes TSX in that caliber would be acceptable for deer.

I know some caribou and blacktails that would add the 75 AMax to that list, if they could be reached for comment.

 

[oldpink]

I've killed two deer in Kentucky with 22 centerfires; one with a 223 Ackley using an 80gr Amax, and another with a 5.56 AR using a 77gr Nosler Custom Comp. Both deer were EXCEEDINGLY dead; the A-Max completely vacated the doe's skull; the 77gr CC entered the skull, severed the spine, tumbled a few times and exited sideways through a neck artery, leaving a hole I could put my thumb into.

Shot placement ALWAYS trumps displacement, with bullet design being runner up; I would have ZERO issues using either above bullet into the boiler room of a 200-class bruiser.

Partition, TSX, TTSX, Nosler BSB, Federal Fusion, Federal TBBC, Mk318, Hornady GMX, and even your basic 55-65gr soft points would do juuuuuust fine.

Not really being argumentative here, but I would point out that you shot both deer in the head, not the traditional heart/lung zone.
However, you're right about all of those bullets except for the basic softpoints, namely because standard softpoints are designed for varmints, meaning instant fragmentation upon impact, not the controlled expansion considered by far the most suitable for big game.
Not saying that you can't kill a deer with a varmint bullet...far from it.
I just believe that you need to respect your prey enough to use a bullet that goes into the vitals and expands at a stable rate to most humanely dispatch the animal as quickly as possible rather than inflict a nasty shallow wound that all too often leads to the animal running off, then eventually succumbing to predators or infection days later.
The bullets that you described having actually used are of that proper controlled expansion type, so head shots weren't even really necessary.

I know some caribou and blacktails that would add the 75 AMax to that list, if they could be reached for comment.

Yeah, as I said, I'm sure there are a few other controlled expansion bullets than just the two I mentioned, that would be entirely suitable.
I was just pointing out that using varmint or FMJ bullets inhumane, as anyone knowledgeable on the subject (I've read enough from you to get the idea that you're well versed on this subject in particular) of bullet types would agree.

 

[avboiler11]

Not really being argumentative here, but I would point out that you shot both deer in the head, not the traditional heart/lung zone.
However, you're right about all of those bullets except for the basic softpoints, namely because standard softpoints are designed for varmints, meaning instant fragmentation upon impact, not the controlled expansion considered by far the most suitable for big game.
Not saying that you can't kill a deer with a varmint bullet...far from it.
I just believe that you need to respect your prey enough to use a bullet that goes into the vitals and expands at a stable rate to most humanely dispatch the animal as quickly as possible rather than inflict a nasty shallow wound that all too often leads to the animal running off, then eventually succumbing to predators or infection days later.
The bullets that you described having actually used are of that proper controlled expansion type, so head shots weren't even really necessary.

I don't think you are being argumentative, it is a discussion worth having.

First off, deer aren't hard to kill. They don't wear SAPI plates and people have been killing them with arrows for centuries. That being said, I agree 100% that one should respect their prey enough to ensure a clean and ethical kill.

To *me*, that means putting a bullet where it needs to go. Of course bullet performance matters too...and that plays a role in shot placement. My personal experience with the 80gr Amax and 77gr CC shows that they don't create a 'nasty shallow wound', but rather penetrate to vitals and either 1. dump all their energy there, or 2. dump energy there while expanding/fragmenting and lodge in the off-side skin or penetrate through. I chose headshots because I had clean shots, I didn't want to track the animals, and IMO the meat tastes better when lights are 'turned out' than one that runs a long ways after a short.

Would I take a shoulder shot on a 220lb monster with either bullet? No, I personally would not. Would I put the bullet into the heart/lungs, the same place I'd put a 100 grain broadhead from a bow? Yes, every day and twice on Sunday.

I look forward to using the 168gr Amax on deer this year; I'm beyond certain it will sufficiently penetrate any animal I'll happen to shoot...but I'm probably going to bean anything without antlers.

 

[oldpink]

I don't think you are being argumentative, it is a discussion worth having.

First off, deer aren't hard to kill. They don't wear SAPI plates and people have been killing them with arrows for centuries. That being said, I agree 100% that one should respect their prey enough to ensure a clean and ethical kill.

To *me*, that means putting a bullet where it needs to go. Of course bullet performance matters too...and that plays a role in shot placement. My personal experience with the 80gr Amax and 77gr CC shows that they don't create a 'nasty shallow wound', but rather penetrate to vitals and either 1. dump all their energy there, or 2. dump energy there while expanding/fragmenting and lodge in the off-side skin or penetrate through. I chose headshots because I had clean shots, I didn't want to track the animals, and IMO the meat tastes better when lights are 'turned out' than one that runs a long ways after a short.

Would I take a shoulder shot on a 220lb monster with either bullet? No, I personally would not. Would I put the bullet into the heart/lungs, the same place I'd put a 100 grain broadhead from a bow? Yes, every day and twice on Sunday.

I look forward to using the 168gr Amax on deer this year; I'm beyond certain it will sufficiently penetrate any animal I'll happen to shoot...but I'm probably going to bean anything without antlers.

You and me both.
I'll almost certainly be using a variant of the excellent Barnes X-Bullet, three different examples of which, XLC (discontinued), MRX (also discontinued), and the current TTSX, not because I believe that a bullet specifically designed to penetrate better than a conventional bullet, but because they turn out to be the mosat accurate (MOA) of two bullets out of my .30-06.
The other MOA bullet is the Sierra 180 grain Pro-Hunter, which I wouldn't feel handicapped at all using instead, but I see that the 165 grain bullet Barnes is just about the ideal bullet weight to provide the Goldilocks balance of energy and flatness of trajectory.

 

[padawan]

I'm training using my new sharp stick. Low cost, eco-friendly, low noise.

 

[oldpink]

I'm training using my new sharp stick. Low cost, eco-friendly, low noise.

Oh, but I would have given so much to have a stick that was sharpened...
[video=youtube;Xe1a1wHxTyo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo[/video]

 

[padawan]

Oh, but I would have given so much to have a stick that was sharpened...
[video=youtube;Xe1a1wHxTyo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo[/video]

 

[Hookeye]

Sharp stick season is before gun season.
Mine will be launched by an old Blackwidow again this year.

 

[vernw]

LMAO - Love this!!

I once killed two trophy bucks with one shot using nothing more than a paperclip and a rubber band. The paperclip hit the 1st buck in the butt and he jumped right into a low branch and broke his neck, the other one died laughing.

Thank - you!!! I haven't laughed that hard in months!