Historial perspective: Collapse of the American Empire: Swift, Silent, Certain

[ruger17hmr]

Collapse of the American Empire: Swift, Silent, Certain


Commentary: Historians Warning of a Sudden 'Thief at Night,' an 'Accelerating Car Crash'


collapse-of-the-american-empire-swift-silent-certain: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

What do you think?

Is the author being overtly pessimistic?

Or, does the commentary deserve careful consideration?

Something to think about .....

 

[CombatVet]

Didn't read the whole article, but I have to say from what I read I agree. Look at Nazi Germany (No I'm not saying we're JUST like Nazi Germany!) They severely over stretched their military when they attacked Russia. It was one of their down falls. Our military is sorely stretched. Same thing happened to the Roman Empire. The Gauls came down after the Roman army was stretched to thin.

 

[Expat]

But when you are talking about Nazi German, the Roman Empire and several others, you are talking about attempts to conquer and occupy the known world. Most Americans I know are looking forward to our troops coming home. Most of you have already seen it, but I think this is a good place to quote Colin Powell:

During an "MTV Global Discussion" on February 14, 2002, he was asked how he felt representing a country commonly perceived as "the Satan of contemporary politics." Here is the relevant part of his reply:

[F]ar from being the Great Satan, I would say that we are the Great Protector. We have sent men and women from the armed forces of the United States to other parts of the world throughout the past century to put down oppression. We defeated Fascism. We defeated Communism. We saved Europe in World War I and World War II. We were willing to do it, glad to do it. We went to Korea. We went to Vietnam. All in the interest of preserving the rights of people. And when all those conflicts were over, what did we do? Did we stay and conquer? Did we say, "Okay, we defeated Germany. Now Germany belongs to us? We defeated Japan, so Japan belongs to us"? No. What did we do? We built them up. We gave them democratic systems which they have embraced totally to their soul. And did we ask for any land? No, the only land we ever asked for was enough land to bury our dead. And that is the kind of nation we are.
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[ghunter]

Just read the article. I have a different take on the end of the USA. We will still be around 50, even 200 years from now. We'll still have 50 stars and 13 stripes on our flag. We'll still celebrate the 4th of July and we'll still have 3 branches of government. Our leaders will still babble about freedom and opportunity.

Our apocalypse will be cultural. No mushroom clouds, no violent clashes with unkempt invaders. The superficial body politic of USA will survive, but our psyche, our volksgeist, will have long since gone. Traditional morals, personal responsibility, individualism, charity (not state sanctioned)- all these things are in irreversible decline. Our grand kids will still refer to themselves as Americans, but our country will look like the UK does now- superficially intact, but functionally flaccid.

 

[Designer99]

But when you are talking about Nazi German, the Roman Empire and several others, you are talking about attempts to conquer and occupy the known world. Most Americans I know are looking forward to our troops coming home. Most of you have already seen it, but I think this is a good place to quote Colin Powell:

But the symptom of downfall is an overstretched army. Whether we conquer, occupy, or go home is irrelevant.

 

[CarmelHP]

But the symptom of downfall is an overstretched army. Whether we conquer, occupy, or go home is irrelevant.

The Army in World War 2 was overstretched. In World War 1 it was overstretched. In the Civil War it was overstretched. In the Revolution, it was *really* overstretched. Maybe, that's not the determining factor.

 

[ruger17hmr]

If U.S is to be dethroned, it will be due to combination of factors.

I can think of a few right off my head; a rampant unemployment, a ballooning deficit, an ever increasing beuracratic control, irresponsible fiscal policy, etc.

Overstretched army will play a role, but it will not be the deciding factor.

 

[wtfd661]

But when you are talking about Nazi German, the Roman Empire and several others, you are talking about attempts to conquer and occupy the known world. Most Americans I know are looking forward to our troops coming home. Most of you have already seen it, but I think this is a good place to quote Colin Powell:

Fantastic post. And yes it is relevant as to whether or not we occupy vs coming home. As an occupying force not only do you have to "conquer" but then have to "occupy" and continually "pacify" that land. When you are doing that for generations that is when you are using to many of your resources, maintaining that occupation. The goal is to assist in creating a stable government and nothing more in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since we liberated those country's we have a moral and ethical responsibility to insure stability for their citizens.

The downfall of the United States while come from within. It is a scary time for me with the Socialistic forces that are continually working to destabilize and take over our Republic. This is the threat that we need to watch out for.

WOW, I sound like I need to loosen my tinfoil cap and I truly hope that I am being paranoid for no reason, but I sure don't like a lot of what I'm seeing going on right now in this society.

 

[CombatVet]

The Army in World War 2 was overstretched. In World War 1 it was overstretched. In the Civil War it was overstretched. In the Revolution, it was *really* overstretched. Maybe, that's not the determining factor.

Would you consider the British Empire overstretched before it's regression?

But when you are talking about Nazi German, the Roman Empire and several others, you are talking about attempts to conquer and occupy the known world. Most Americans I know are looking forward to our troops coming home. Most of you have already seen it, but I think this is a good place to quote Colin Powell

But haven't we occupied the world in a sense? Look at all of our military bases through out the world. Several in Europe, Asia, Middle East. How many do we have in Africa? Heck, what if you count all the soldiers guarding embassies? To me, that's pretty stretched, but that's just my humble opinion.

 

[ruger17hmr]

[Since we liberated those country's we have a moral and ethical responsibility to insure stability for their citizens. [/quote]

It is an impossible task.

Look at the current situation in Iraq. Is it getting any better since the invasion/occupation?

Besides, the war on Iraq was not about liberating and insuring stability for Iraqi citizens.

 

[indykid]

People, including many here tend to forget that we the people of the United States ARE the armed forces. Read the second amendment. Just because we don't wear uniforms doesn't mean we can't defend this country against all enemies foreign or domestic!

Even those who only use rifles to feed their family are a vital part of our citizen militia. With their ability to take a long range shot, if it isn't a dear or small game, there is no reason to believe that they won't be a vital part of the citizen militia as defined by the second amendment.

Maybe our mechanized army is stretched a bit, just like when we fought 2 fronts in World War 2, but that doesn't mean the homefront is undefended.

Think about it and unwrap that overly tightened tin foil. We the people who make up the citizen militia of the United States are a force that no one will want to recon with.

 

[TopDog]

Nope, not on the mark. I see the decline of America very similar to the Roman decline.

1. Greed, is this not at the heart of most decay?
The country gets to the point where everything is controlled by greed and nothing more. Every aspect of the country to include the government and religion. Nothing is done for the sake of the people, only the rich. Even acts that appear to have a decent motive are really just acts to benefit the rich in some way. Take the illegal invasion of Mexicans aliens sponsored by the American government, not the American people. The ruling overlords benefit gaining a large voter base. The rich benefit by gaining cheap labor while putting trouble maker American workers out of work thereby creating a new more manageable work force. The powerful Catholic church gains parishioners to replace the Americans they have aliened. And so it goes on and on.

2. The sheep stop thinking and stop caring. They believe what they are told and stop thinking. They see the decay but do nothing because they have become sheep. They have been dumbed down by the decline of the education system. They have become immoral by exposure to the Liberal news media, the Liberal entertainment industry, giant mega churches with Starbucks in them that worship the dollar and not God, and the Liberal education system. As long as they have the newest shinny thing that they were told they wanted by the media they are happy. The sheep stop caring as long as they get what they are told they want they don't see the corruption, the decay the decline.

All I really have to say is, the road of sorrow is paved with good intentions.

 

[ruger17hmr]

Human greed has always been present since the creation, what makes it more of a factor in today's world?

 

[dross]

I'd like someone to define greed in a way that makes sense to me as a bad thing. No one ever thinks the fact that they want more than they have as greed - it's the other guy who should be happy with what he has.

It's like the old George Carlin joke: "How come everyone driving faster than you is an idiot and everyone driving slower than you is a moron?"

 

[rambone]

Do you guys agree that the Consummation happened when Clinton handed over the White House to Bush?

 

[CarmelHP]

Would you consider the British Empire overstretched before it's regression?
......
But haven't we occupied the world in a sense? Look at all of our military bases through out the world. Several in Europe, Asia, Middle East. How many do we have in Africa? Heck, what if you count all the soldiers guarding embassies? To me, that's pretty stretched, but that's just my humble opinion.

Nonsense. How can you compare the United States to the British Empire? At the end of the 19th century, when the BE was at its zenith, the British isles had a population of 41 million, while directly administering or holding as vassals over a quarter of the population of the world (including India and most of China), around half a billion people. That would be like the U.S. today trying to directly administer half the world's population. Our Army is so "overstretched" that we do not even see the need to implement conscription, relying on an all volunteer force while all those empires the U.S. is being compared to had universal mandatory conscription of all male citizens, at the time they contracted, as well as impressment of subject peoples into service, and use of large foreign mercenary forces.

 

[CombatVet]

Nonsense. How can you compare the United States to the British Empire? At the end of the 19th century, when the BE was at its zenith, the British isles had a population of 41 million, while directly administering or holding as vassals over a quarter of the population of the world (including India and most of China), around half a billion people. That would be like the U.S. today trying to directly administer half the world's population. Our Army is so "overstretched" that we do not even see the need to implement conscription, relying on an all volunteer force while all those empires the U.S. is being compared to had universal mandatory conscription of all male citizens, at the time they contracted, as well as impressment of subject peoples into service, and use of large foreign mercenary forces.

Good points. I agree though that we aren't directly administering to half the worlds population. Directly. We do influence a lot of policies though, or at least we used to.

Could the current depression we're in be a way of "conscripting" people? Or the use of National Guard units be another? I say the first part of that half as a joke half serious. Tin foil hat time?

 

[CarmelHP]

Good points. I agree though that we aren't directly administering to half the worlds population. Directly. We do influence a lot of policies though, or at least we used to.

Then we're redefining the meaning of "empire" and "overstretched army" to mean just about anything we want in order to fit the conjectured theory.

Could the current depression we're in be a way of "conscripting" people? Or the use of National Guard units be another? I say the first part of that half as a joke half serious. Tin foil hat time?

The NG is a reserve federal military force so that was included in the "army," but it's not conscripted either. I think I see what you're trying to get at in regard to "the current depression," but again, definitions are being vigorously abused and concepts contorted to fit the U.S. into the boundaries of the theory. Doesn't work.

 

[CombatVet]

Then we're redefining the meaning of "empire" and "overstretched army" to mean just about anything we want in order to fit the conjectured theory.



The NG is a reserve federal military force so that was included in the "army," but it's not conscripted either. I think I see what you're trying to get at in regard to "the current depression," but again, definitions are being vigorously abused and concepts contorted to fit the U.S. into the boundaries of the theory. Doesn't work.

If I'm not mistaken, and I could be; the NG are state soldiers who swear to uphold their states constitution, allegence to the governor ect ect. So then wouldn't using them as federal soldiers be using them in a way that they were not designed? That's what I was getting at, by saying they were conscripted. Now Reservist are just that, Federal Reserve soldiers. So on and so forth.

 

[melensdad]

I'd like someone to define greed in a way that makes sense to me as a bad thing. No one ever thinks the fact that they want more than they have as greed - it's the other guy who should be happy with what he has.

It's like the old George Carlin joke: "How come everyone driving faster than you is an idiot and everyone driving slower than you is a moron?"

Strikes me that if you really dig into the founding of any capitalist economy (like ours in the US) it has a foundation on a healthy level of greed, but its called achievement and innovation. The Boston Tea party really was about the ability to earn a decent living without over taxation, but that decent living was the desire to prosper. Without the ability to prosper we cannot get ahead. But is not desire to prosper defined as GREED by many people?