HK P30 or HK45

[krizzz]

Howdy All -

I am a total newb to the gun world. I've been reading a lot in anticipation of buying my first (of hopefully many) guns. I've read a lot about HK quality and reliability and they seem like a good manufacturer for a solid home defense firearm.

The P30 (.40 variation) and HK45 (.45 duh) both seem like good guns. I've handled the P30 and liked it (vs. a Sig P229 .40 Elite which was like an awesomely made brick).

Anyhoo, I need to balance stopping power with recoil because my wife will also be using the gun. I've also heard a lot about Sig and Glock quality in the semi-auto department.

I'd love some expert advice if anyone knows these guns well, or has other thoughts/input.

TIA!

 

[KLB]

to

Too bad you live over in the People's Republic of Illinois.

 

[krizzz]

to

Too bad you live over in the People's Republic of Illinois.

Thanks for outing me! I was trying to fly under the radar here!

 

[melensdad]

First off I would not buy a HK pistol because the company takes an arrogant and anti-gun position toward civilian owners of many of their legal, but tactical weapons. That said, I see no reason to support their handgun sales to civilians.

Other than that, welcome to INGO.

My feeling on home defense guns is that they should be able to be reasonably used by the smallest/weakest member of the family that is capable of using the gun. If your wife is recoil shy then she will not be happy shooting a 45acp, no matter what pistol is wrapped around the cartridge.

The 9mm, fired from an all steel gun like a Sig, Beretta, Browning or better yet a CZ, has minimal recoil that is easily handled by most people. The polymer framed guns (Glock, FN, M&P, Sprinfield, etc) with steel slides will have more felt recoil than an all steel gun. Ditto for aluminum framed guns. For a home defense gun you don't really have to worry about weight, in fact a slightly heavier gun is easier to control.

Look for a gun that fits your wife's hand. My daughter loves to shoot my CZs and Browning Hi Powers but not so much my 1911s. My wife was trained in ROTC and shoots 1911s without any problem but the recoil from the 45 tends to wear her out and she can shoot more rounds comfortably if shooting a 9mm.

 

[krizzz]

Thanks for the thoughts melonsdad! I am a little hesitant on the 9mm, from a stopping power perspective, but it sounds like I should definitely be aiming more towards the .40 than a .45 ACP. The Sig P229 Elite that I dry fired was a .40 and weighed a ton (no polymer like the Glock or HK). So a heavier gun will help to minimize recoil? This seems like a good direction to head in.

 

[JWAS]

I had the p30 (9mm) and the HK45c.... the 45 and 45c had a much better trigger than that of the P30 models (both 9mm and 40).
I will tell a couple of things, first off, both guns were amazingly accurate and the finish is amazing. I didnt realize how nice it was until i started getting other brands of firearms...
Next thing to note is that the p30 models cannot have their triggers changed to LEM from DA/SA. This may not be a big deal, but there isnt enough room in the frame (according to HK) to safely convert the triggers... so if you want LEM, get the LEM model. If you want the SA/DA model, get that one... either way you cannot switch them... you can on the HK45 and HK45c.... that is because (at least i think this is the reason) the safety and decocker are on the side of the gun, not in the rear.
The P30 triggers (like most basic model HKs) have a heavy DA, but the SA is very nice... problem is that (at least my P30) there is a lot of play before you actually begin to feel the resistance of the trigger. Plus the P30 trigger (again while comparing to my HK45c) seemed to have to travel further towards the rear in order to "pull the trigger" and the gun fire. The HK45c trigger was very nice... still a heavy DA, just not as heavy as the P30 and smoother as well. the SA was great! very little play and a crisp break. I actually thought it was very close to my HK45 tactical trigger (which has the Match trigger). The only difference was it didnt have the overtravel screw. One thing I will say though is that my CZ trigger is still the best Ive ever messed with (yes even more so than a 1911, but the CZ had a 2.5lbs SA pull with a crazy short reset). Really need to get another one of those CZs...
Finally, I will say this.... why the HK45 over the HK45c??? the HK45 is a great gun and yes it has the grips like the P30, but I loved the P2000 feel of the HK45c. Aside from that the only difference is that the 45 has a longer barrel and only carries 2 extra rounds per magazine. Those 2 extra rounds mean nothing since you can use the 45 mags in the 45c. If you have your heart set on the full size, then get it... but the 45c is actually about the size of the P30 (i think I could set them side by side and they were about the same dimensions). The 45 is a big gun.... for that big of a gun I would look into the usp45 tact like i did.... but i do not know what restrictions you have over in Illinois. the HK45 and 45c are great guns.... and if i decide to get into the 45 realm again, it will either be the 45c LEM, or a 1911... oh only down side i found with the HK45c (not the full size) is that you cannot use full size lights on it's rail... so no TLR-1 or anything like that, only compact models like the TLR-3...
If you want 40 instead of 45.... I would say go towards the p2000 instead of the p30.... although it doesnt feel as nice (still feels better than most guns) the trigger on the p2000 is nicer.
All that being said, if you only what to go between the two models u described, then I would go with the HK45... other wise...
1. CZ P01 with some custom work from CZ custom (will cost u the same as either of these weapons... lol, sorry, couldn't resist, hopefully this is available to you in Illinois, not sure)
1. HK45c
2. HK P2000 40cal (i love the lem in the p2000 models)
3. HK45
4. HK P30


PS... the 9mm is just fine for SD now with modern ammo... if you dont think its good enough then thats fine... get a 45... big bullet and i feel 45s have more muzzle climb, but less snap when it comes to recoil... and yes, heavier gun typically means less recoil, when comparing the same caliber.

and if you like HKs then get one, dont worry about what melensdad says, most of the "anti-gun position" started when the import bans began (you could get anything HK that was legal according to our govt until that time) then it was too difficult to sell the weapons.... same thing with FN and the 5.7.... civilians cant get the proper ammo because our govt said no.... not the company... the only thing u can say about HK, and most weapons that are imported are that the companies are lazy and only want to make money so they only import the things that can easily be imported. again according to our govt, not those companies.... same thing with the glock 18.... okay, sorry... im done....
1. HK45c
2. HK P2000 40cal (i love the lem in the p2000 models)
3. HK45
4. HK P30

 

[melensdad]

Actually if you shoot the 40 you will find it snaps in a very unpleasant way. Many of us who regularly shoot 45s have a real dislike for the recoil of the 40.

YES, HEAVIER GUNS MINIMIZE FELT RECOIL. Realize you are not going to use a home defense gun as a concealed carry pistol so you don't have to worry about compact size or light weight. Go with the heavier gun and it will recoil less in your hand.

As for recoil here is the best way I can describe it:
45ACP is sort of like catching a "medicine ball" it rocks you back but doesn't hurt.
40S&W is sort of like catching a "hardball" in your bare hand, it snaps in your hand.
9mm is like catching a tennis ball in your bare hand.


As for your concern about stopping power, yes its true the 9mm has less than the others BUT with modern premium handgun ammo the 9mm is actually very good. I would not be concerned about it.

 

[01deuce]

First off I would not buy a HK pistol because the company takes an arrogant and anti-gun position toward civilian owners of many of their legal, but tactical weapons. That said, I see no reason to support their handgun sales to civilians.

Is that why they brought civilian versions of the 416 & 417 to market ? And other things you will see shortly!



Your statement may have been true 20 years ago, but is completely false now!




OP: If one only than the P30. It most likely we be easier for your wife due to size.

 

[melensdad]

Is that why they brought civilian versions . . .
Your statement may have been true 20 years ago, but is completely false now!

Really, why don't you try to get some factory parts or support for a civilian owned full auto weapon.

Call me a liar and I get proven correct while you have been proven one yourself.

 

[01deuce]

Really, why don't you try to get some factory parts or support for a civilian owned full auto weapon.

Call me a liar and I get proven correct while you have been proven one yourself.

First you say "tactical weapons" and I show evidence your wrong.

I did not call you a liar!

Now you say "full auto" and say that's proof I'm a liar?

A little sensitive are we?

Call HKparts net for full auto parts.

 

[krizzz]

Thanks for all the great info! Looks like the best course of action will be to take my wife to the range and try out a couple of 9s,. 40s, and. 45s (metal and polymer in each) and let her drive the buying process.

 

[01deuce]

Thanks for all the great info! Looks like the best course of action will be to take my wife to the range and try out a couple of 9s,. 40s, and. 45s (metal and polymer in each) and let her drive the buying process.

Yes it is

And I apologize for my extra comments in your thread

You are on the right track wanting an HK.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'd go hk45 personally I love that grip over the p2000/hk45c grip

I also briefly owned a p30l I sold it because I shot my glock 19, faster, and more accurately. I love the grip, and the controls on the hk, but I couldn't justify that much in a gun when it offered me nothing preformance wise over my glock. Ymmv. One of the things I feel caused this was the shape of the back of the grip. It was too narrow IMHO, like the Walther p99 , making it hard to hold on to. The hk45 is wider an the back of
The grip is far more radiused making it a joy. I need to shoot one before I lay down the cash, but I want one. And yes I did try all
The grip panel combinations with the p30l .

 

[Jeremiah]

Also don't fret at all about 9mm. Self defense loads preform nearly identically. I dont have any issues with the recoil and .40 is taking over my collection (610 revolver, g35, hk usp expert .40) compared to the g19, and cz shadow I currently own. Of course this spring I hope to get a Walther ppq and Fnh fns competition both in 9mm

 

[TAT7]

I own both, For a stay at home/SHTF weapon I prefer .45 so my HK45 stays at home as a night stand gun along with a Remington 870. The HK45 is not real pleasant to carry unless you are a massive fellow, but it has it's place for open carry and pure firepower and reliability....now as far as a daily carry, I carry the p30 for comfort and weight. What these guys are saying about the 9mm is true with self defense loads, hell, YouTube some videos about the effects of 9mm with modern ammo. You will also have naturaly faster follow up shots with a 9mm (you can have the same with 45, but takes some training), along with a larger mag capacity. Things to consider.

 

[sig1473]

First off I would not buy a HK pistol because the company takes an arrogant and anti-gun position toward civilian owners of many of their legal, but tactical weapons. That said, I see no reason to support their handgun sales to civilians.

If you don't have anything to offer on HK pistols, please stay out and quit thread-jacking. MMMMK. Bye-bye now.

Now, back on task.

I would vote +1 for the HK45C vs. the P30(40). I have a P30 V3(SA/DA) in 9mm. They only gripe I have with it is the grip texture. I am not a big fan of the "spider-web" texture. I love the HK45C grip texture though since it has the P2000-type. If you choose a LEM trigger, it can take a while for you to get used to. It took me a while and I still kind of struggle since I'm so used to SA/DA. Mags can be a little expensive but shop around especially on HKPro.com and you can usually find some deals.

 

[kawtech87]

I am a little hesitant on the 9mm, from a stopping power perspective, but it sounds like I should definitely be aiming more towards the .40 than a .45 ACPQUOTE]

I am a total newb to the gun world.
Anyhoo, I need to balance stopping power with recoil because my wife will also be using the gun.

Stopping power is a myth so get that out of your head first. .40 has sharper recoil than both 9mm and .45. Honestly 9mm with good self defense rounds will be your best direction. I would look into the P30 in 9mm if I were you. But yes let your wife make the final decision if she will be an intended end user.

Also practice! Seek training if you can for both of you.

to You came to the right place, Lots of great people and info on here!

 

[melensdad]

If you don't have anything to offer on HK pistols, please stay out and quit thread-jacking. MMMMK. Bye-bye now.

Apparently you failed reading comprehension in school. I did NOT thread jack, as you suggest. If you bother to read the OP, he also mentions Sigs and Glocks and even asks if people have other thoughts/input. Later in another post he also mentions Sig again and then mentions Glock pistols.

I not only provided pertenant input on pistols, but I also provided relevant information about the various recoil issues and how to minimize felt recoil.

to you for not having good reading and logic skills.

 

[krizzz]

All, I have learned more from this thread in one day than from the past few weeks of reading different articles and reviews. HUGE THANKS TO YOU ALL!

And sorry I started a flame war...wasn't my intent. =)

 

[sig1473]

Apparently you failed reading comprehension in school. I did NOT thread jack, as you suggest. If you bother to read the OP, he also mentions Sigs and Glocks and even asks if people have other thoughts/input. Later in another post he also mentions Sig again and then mentions Glock pistols.

I not only provided pertenant input on pistols, but I also provided relevant information about the various recoil issues and how to minimize felt recoil.

to you for not having good reading and logic skills.

You are right!! I did fail reading.....or did I? At least I know how to spell pertinent