How crazy are you? Load Data for .223

[gunbunnies]

My statement was that if your using a load that is marked for 223 then you can use it in either brass case but if your using a load that mimics military 5.56 ballistics you should only load 5.56 brass with that load. This is because the 5.56 brass is slightly thicker and it will hold up to the added pressure.... Either piece of brass will hold the load and sun but the 5.56 with a true 5.56 load will be re-loadable after firing.

If I'm wrong let me know..... but that is what I have been told and when running through a test bbl measuring cup the 5.56 loads have more pressure.

 

[jedi]

That makes sence GB. It's not something I need to worry about for this run since I'm using .223 REM load data.

 

[Litlratt]

Commercial cases are fine under 5.56 pressures and are reloadable. It is only under extreme pressures that commercial and military cases exhibit primer pocket stretching from a single firing. With hot loads, it can happen but there is no set number of firings that should be expected.
Soft Federal brass is another story unless they have recently changed.

 

[gunbunnies]

Litlratt, you have noticed the Federal brass being soft too..... I was amazed at the neck separations on a batch of Federal GM 308 match brass. The loads were no where close to max and the brass had only been loaded twice, which was very strange from past experience....

 

[sloughfoot]

I process about 1,500 cases for my match AR-15's per year. Some of it is mine that I picked up after shooting a string, some of it is somebody else's that they lost or did not pick up. Maybe from last month's match even. Maybe issued ammo from that genuine M4 that a Soldier or Marine fired during qualification on my firing point last week.

It is brass, I pick it up and throw it in the bag. Anyway.... Keeping in mind that I trim VERY few cases to length....

After resizing and going through a lyman case length gauge, just to make sure none is too long, each case is weighed and then segregated in .5 grain increments from 92 grains to 98 grains. In each of those buckets will be brass from Lake City, PMC, WCC, Remington, Hornady, FC, Malaysia and a few headstamps I don't remember. Some will have the NATO + on it, most don't.

I have read that 5.56 brass has thicker walls with less internal capacity and that is true, but not always.

I have heard that commercial .223 brass has thinner walls and more internal capacity and that is true but not always. Some of the heaviest brass is Winchester commercial. WCC is the mil-spec brass and is much lighter. Mostly. It does not have the + on it.

Here is my conclusion after doing this for almost 20 years.

1. Each of my dozen buckets will have mixed headstamps from every manufacturer.
2. Even the highly vaunted Lapua brass is mixed into each bucket. So is Lake City and other NATO+ marked brass.
3. It is extremely rare for commercial Remington brass to be in a bucket other than 94.5 grains. It is the most consistant brass I have ever used.
4. Federal brass is just as good as any other brass of the same weight. As long as you are FL sizing properly.
5. Any weight brass works fine for 200 yards or less with 45 to 69 or 75 grain bullets.
6. I use the same weight brass for 300 yards and out for consistant velocities with 75 and 80 grain bullets. Having a lot of Remington brass makes this easy, but there is also other headstamps at this weight also. Lots of LC+, PMC, and WCC in addition to the Remington. Plenty of LC+.
7. The brass will not hold enough appropriate powder to get you into trouble no matter what bullet you are using. Use the max load in the manual. ( remember, mine are Match rifles and chambered accordingly)

8. And this is important. 5.56 and .223 are the same. 55 grain is 55 grain. Headstamp does not matter. The same pressure, the same velocity. Whether it be LC, Malaysian, or any commercial ammo. Even + marked brass.

5.56 NATO and .223 are far from the same.

Once you have fired that green tip 62 grain penetrator at 3200 fps, you won't have the powder available to you to match that with your reloads. it cannot be done with commercial powders. I don't know how the military does it. I can't do it.

9. There are no absolutes.

I don't worry about any of this at 100 yards. I use the heavy brass for the zeroing and function tests at 100 yards.

This is my experience. I hope this is helpful.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I process about 1,500 cases for my match AR-15's per year. Some of it is mine that I picked up after shooting a string, some of it is somebody else's that they lost or did not pick up. Maybe from last month's match even. Maybe issued ammo from that genuine M4 that a Soldier or Marine fired during qualification on my firing point last week.

It is brass, I pick it up and throw it in the bag. Anyway.... Keeping in mind that I trim VERY few cases to length....

After resizing and going through a lyman case length gauge, just to make sure none is too long, each case is weighed and then segregated in .5 grain increments from 92 grains to 98 grains. In each of those buckets will be brass from Lake City, PMC, WCC, Remington, Hornady, FC, Malaysia and a few headstamps I don't remember. Some will have the NATO + on it, most don't.

I have read that 5.56 brass has thicker walls with less internal capacity and that is true, but not always.

I have heard that commercial .223 brass has thinner walls and more internal capacity and that is true but not always. Some of the heaviest brass is Winchester commercial. WCC is the mil-spec brass and is much lighter. Mostly. It does not have the + on it.

Here is my conclusion after doing this for almost 20 years.

1. Each of my dozen buckets will have mixed headstamps from every manufacturer.
2. Even the highly vaunted Lapua brass is mixed into each bucket. So is Lake City and other NATO+ marked brass.
3. It is extremely rare for commercial Remington brass to be in a bucket other than 94.5 grains. It is the most consistant brass I have ever used.
4. Federal brass is just as good as any other brass of the same weight. As long as you are FL sizing properly.
5. Any weight brass works fine for 200 yards or less with 45 to 69 or 75 grain bullets.
6. I use the same weight brass for 300 yards and out for consistant velocities with 75 and 80 grain bullets. Having a lot of Remington brass makes this easy, but there is also other headstamps at this weight also. Lots of LC+, PMC, and WCC in addition to the Remington. Plenty of LC+.
7. The brass will not hold enough appropriate powder to get you into trouble no matter what bullet you are using. Use the max load in the manual. ( remember, mine are Match rifles and chambered accordingly)

8. And this is important. 5.56 and .223 are the same. 55 grain is 55 grain. Headstamp does not matter. The same pressure, the same velocity. Whether it be LC, Malaysian, or any commercial ammo. Even + marked brass.

5.56 NATO and .223 are far from the same.

Once you have fired that green tip 62 grain penetrator at 3200 fps, you won't have the powder available to you to match that with your reloads. it cannot be done with commercial powders. I don't know how the military does it. I can't do it.

9. There are no absolutes.

I don't worry about any of this at 100 yards. I use the heavy brass for the zeroing and function tests at 100 yards.

This is my experience. I hope this is helpful.

 

[jedi]

Well here are the results of my reloads.
Bullet: 55gr FMJ
Powder: H335
All shots done at 25 yards
4 rounds per target

24.3 grains

24.6 grains

24.9 grains

25 grains

25.2 grains

25.5 grains

25.8 grains

26.1 grains

26.4 grains

26.7 grains

The data book said to start at 24.3 and the max was 27. I stopped a bit short of the MAX.
I looked over the targets and liked 24.3, 25.8 and 26.1 the best so re-did the test again with just these.
The results were as follows:

Test 2 - 24.3 grains

Test 2 - 25.8 grains

Test 2 - 26.1 grains

Of these I really liked 26.1 as the hole on the left is actually 2 holes real close together.
However I could not find the 4th hole on the paper of the backstop plywood. I know I fired 4 times.
So either I missed it's in the holes already there or

So with that in mind 24.3 grains also looks real good AND it uses less powder so I declared that one the winner.

Thanks all for your advice/info.
Took the remaining rounds (I did 10 per powder level) mixed them up and ran an Project Appleseed Target and scored a 230 with the "non winning level powder" (230 is very good BTW 210+ is what you need to score). So the is that it proves that I could load at any range for this rifle with this powder.

 

[sloughfoot]

Would you like to test your top three loads at 300 Yards? I am available to meet and am willing to pull targets for you this Sunday at Fort Wayne Rifle & Revolver Gun Club... Home. Go to "contacts" for my contact info.

This is a serious offer.

There is a 100 yard offhand match that starts at noon. The range will be ours after 1330 or so.

 

[jedi]

Would you like to test your top three loads at 300 Yards? I am available to meet and am willing to pull targets for you this Sunday at Fort Wayne Rifle & Revolver Gun Club... Home. Go to "contacts" for my contact info.

This is a serious offer.

There is a 100 yard offhand match that starts at noon. The range will be ours after 1330 or so.

I would love to but
1) the fugly rifle is now in the hands of my cleaner and i won't get it back for at least 2 weeks.
2) after this Friday I'm officaly on ingo hibernation since the nwi season 5 events are done and i need a break from ingo and being the social/events coordinator.
3) i need to reload more rounds as om all out of rounds in h335.

The next time i touch the guns will be march 2015.
We don't have local ranges up here in nwi.
For rifles that is.

==Joking==
Plus ft. Wayne is ffffffffaaaaaaaaarrrrr
And as the nwi members will attest jedi hates driving outside of lake county. Which is the only real countu in indiana where the dead vote multiple times.

 

[sloughfoot]

OK. Well I have to say I am somewhat astounded. It was a real offer.

The first rifle match every year is in Oak Ridge, TN. The first weekend in March. You are welcome to tag along if you want.

 

[Madjack181]

Two Questions. Were you using a bench rest for your shots? Do you ever come down to Winamac to shoot at the range there?

 

[jedi]

Two Questions. Were you using a bench rest for your shots? Do you ever come down to Winamac to shoot at the range there?

It was a makeshift bench rest (ie. ammo box).
I go to WINAMAC once a month when we do the NWI INGO Meet & Shoot events.
This was the 2014 events
2014 NWI Events
and here is the 2015 events
2015 NWI Events

Why you ask?
Come join us if you can.

 

[Madjack181]

I try to get over to Winamac when I can. I didn't know NWI INGO met over there. Will have to try and make your meets. Thanks

 

[jedi]

See the 1st link in my sig "join NWI INGO" to get on our mailing list for remainders of upcoming events.
We do the Meet & Shoots but also have Meet & Eat, cigar nights, training classes, and DIY projects (how to make a holster, dutch oven cooking, etc..)

 

[NKBJ]

What's the favorite load when making up one size fits all ammo for AR's with 55 grainers?

 

[sloughfoot]

What's the favorite load when making up one size fits all ammo for AR's with 55 grainers?

26.2 Grains of Winchester 748. Any Small rifle primer. 2.550 to 2.560 OAL.