How do you hold someone at gunpoint?

[Coach]

Here's something to think about. If you are a responsible gun owner, you should be able to place a kill shot at will. Also a wounding shot or warning. I personally do not believe in warnings. I will try and be as polite as possible> dead men tell no lies.

You shoot to stop the threat. Not to wound and not to warn. We are not that good. Shooting to wreck and elbow or a knee is not a good idea. Ifa shot is warranted you shoot to stop the threat.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Some thoughts in response to #2 of the original question:

Decide now what you would say if such an event should arise and mentally rehearse it. From what I've read, "Freeze or I shoot!" is a good phrase. It is short and simple. It also instructs the BG to freeze. Saying anything that involves some sort of movement like "Hands up!" or "Let me see your hands!" or "Reach for the sky!" is a bad idea. The BG could already have a weapon in his hands or on his person that you can't see. If you tell him to put his hands up, you will expect to see his hands move, so you will not have a mental trigger set to shoot when he decides to shoot you while putting his hands up. In this case, his action will beat your reaction every time. Instead tell him to freeze.

Good points;

This video shows (at 1:55) why getting within arms length is a BAD move, and why the less talking the better (from 2:33):

YouTube - GOOD COPS, BAD COPS

 

[redneckmedic]

Interesting thoughts!

50+ views and only 6 posts, I know some of you are not saying much. . .

Thats b/c everyone here is afraid of getting grilled for there opinion. There are many correct ways, as I've seen in the instrucitonal videos and on VS. When in comes down to it you will always hear "Each situation depics its own response" and it doesn't really matter b/c you will be raked up and down the civil judgitial system no matter what you do!

#2 I like the idea of hands on head, face down, legs crossed, maybe if you have help ziptie cuffs; but remember LE is only min. away, right?!?

Good Post

 

[redneckmedic]

Good video!

 

[SMiller]

My biggest fear would be wondering if there is someone else in the house, everyone is so involved in getting the one person down then the second one comes up and takes you down. Really got to take the 360* in and not get to fucosed on the one.

 

[HandK]

The law changes somewhat if your in your home, You can use deadly force to "Repel an intruder" this meens that you do not have to fear for your life, You can not use deadly force to protect property, I.E. so if they are going out the door with the TV set or are in your back yard with the TV set you can not use deadly force on them. When should you keep them covered At all times, even if you have shot them, Keep them covered, Break your tunnel vision remember that about 80% of the time there is more than one suspect, usually one person and someone else helping them, So be sure to look for them.

If they are not already on the ground order them to get on the ground use your loudest voice he and you will be experiencing auditory occlusion, have them face down on the ground with there arms strait out to the side palms up and have them cross their ankles and tell them not to move if they move you will take it as a threat to your life, and just keep repeating this order to them, don't let them strike up a conversation. Hope this helps.

 

[HandK]

The other thing is its not just one arms length it is two arms lenghts away yours and his!!!

 

[JNG]

There's a relevant side question here--

Under what circumstances would you feel safe issuing a verbal challenge? I'm having trouble visualizing circumstances serious enough to warrant the use of deadly force, but tame enough to make a verbal challenge a safe move.

 

[HandK]

Verbal chalange would be after the theat has been delt with, I.E. by showing your gun to someone that has not commited a life threating felony, you would be the one who commits the life threating felony, there by giving them the right to use deadly force on you. this is of couse if you are not in your home, again things change if you are in your home you have no duty to retreat, and can use deadly force to repel an intruder.

 

[esrice]

Whoa I'm back from the dead!

 

[Wabatuckian]

Keep it short and to-the-point. You are pegged; the perp is pegged.

"Stop."

That conveys all he needs to do in one word. We use this for autistic children, challenged adults, and dementia patients.

"Put your hands up."

No "put your hands where I can see them." That is ambiguous and open to interpretation. Up is a direction; never leave it open ended.

"Get on your knees."

One direction at a time...

"Cross your ankles..."

... the next step...

"Sit on your ankles."

... again, concise, and keeps him from being able to rush you.

"Put your hands behind your head."

Once again, a definite location must be established.

"Interlace your fingers."

I've always thought there was a better word than "interlace." Some crooks are limited in vocabulary...

Now he's pretty much tied up. You'll have time if he wants to rush you.

However, it's also best if you keep this as the next resort. "Leave, and this will be the end of it" would be better. You are safer with the person out of your house. Let the cops catch him.

Josh <><

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
However, it's also best if you keep this as the next resort. "Leave, and this will be the end of it" would be better. You are safer with the person out of your house. Let the cops catch him.

Josh <><

I'm with you all the way up to this last part, Josh. Once you have him, I'd say keep your distance and don't take your eyes off him. Put your back in a corner and a phone in your hand. You're safer with him out of your house, yes... until he comes back and catches you unaware, not to mention what he does to someone else's house when you could have stopped him. It's corny, but I'm reminded of the beginning of the story of "Spider Man", when the robber got away and Peter could have stopped him but didn't. Later, the same guy killed his uncle.

If you can do it safely, I say hold the mope there. If you can't, then I'd agree with you; be a good witness.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

To drop or not to drop, that is the question... whether 'tis nobler in the mind...

I have a couple of thoughts on this, FWIW...

I'd try to always keep the arm trained upon the intruder, inform him to drop the weapon - any other motions other than the dropping of the weapon will result in death... and if need be, have the missus go get a piece as well, but keep arms trained upon him constantly, call the police and inform them that you have made a Citizen's Arrest.

This is assuming one doesn't feel like just dropping him right there - which, honestly, one could probably do without repercussion, if he didn't freeze.
(Yay for Indiana actually having reasonable law in this regard...)

As for confinement, I've never heard of any standard procedure, but knowing there is someone 7-10 feet from me with a shotgun trained on me would be reason enough for me to jolly-well obey any direct commands. Then again, I'm not dumb enough or inconsiderate enough to try to intrude into the dwellings of others - I like breathing too much and my own apartment suits me well enough. In the event he's hopped up on drugs or irrationally violent, well, that's when it's the big decision: either shoot him or handcuff him. Can't do both, unfortunately.... that is the one outcome that MIGHT raise some eyebrows....
"Well, Jim, I'd like to believe you that you felt your life and the life of your wife and kids were in imminent danger [note: imminent =/= immediate] but, well... he's cuffed on the floor and it looks like your wife gave him the 'Mozambique Drill'... so, we're going to have to take you down to the station, take a couple statements..."
Not good. ASP Tactical cuffs are about $55.00-60.00, last time I checked. One or two pair is well-worth the ability to restrain a violent intruder... getting them on would be the hard part, but like I said, the missus is there as backup; an attempt to tussle will result in swift, immediate death on his part... make sure he understands that and then one's biggest problem is explaining the situation to the then-incoming LEOs on-scene. Then again, I've never had this happen and thus have no experience in this at all... just a couple thoughts from this armchair-tactician. If possible, though, I would like some input from the better-informed/more-experienced as to viability or things I've not thought of... and I'm sure there's a lot I haven't even considered.

 

[Phil502]

The only thing I can add is this. I was watching a special forces guy explain why you never touch the BG with your pistol. This guy turned so quickly and knocked the pistol away from the student that I doubt if he could have gotten a good shot off. Thats if you can't keep way out of the BG range completely. By touching the BG with the weapon, they know where the weapon is and they can attempt to knock it away.

 

[Wabatuckian]

I'm with you all the way up to this last part, Josh. Once you have him, I'd say keep your distance and don't take your eyes off him. Put your back in a corner and a phone in your hand. You're safer with him out of your house, yes... until he comes back and catches you unaware, not to mention what he does to someone else's house when you could have stopped him. It's corny, but I'm reminded of the beginning of the story of "Spider Man", when the robber got away and Peter could have stopped him but didn't. Later, the same guy killed his uncle.

If you can do it safely, I say hold the mope there. If you can't, then I'd agree with you; be a good witness.

Blessings,
Bill

Hi Bill,

Yeah, I actually thought of that too.

While we can arrest the person, I would think that we would find ourselves fighting criminal confinement charges if the perp ended up with a good lawyer.

I will admit to having held someone in my vehicle while police backup arrived. It was by pure accident and a good deed on my part that he came to be in my truck, but by the time I found out something was going on, it was too late and didn't have much choice. An officer was blocking my path and waiting for backup.

I won't go into the whole story here, but it's chronicled someplace on this website!

Josh <><

 

[Coach]

If the BG is in the house securing him will be easy following the Mozambique drill. Not holding and not letting him get away to do more harm. If he/she broke in they have to prevail in order to leave under their own power.

Outside the house but in the curtlige (sp?) I might hold for the police, depending on the situation but I will likely err on the side of agressiveness here as well. The BG is in a place he has no right to be and obviously up to any good, my tolerance ended when the bad intentions for my family and property were entertained, but now that they are being acted out...

 

[U.S. Patriot]

This is mostly what I learned from my Law Enforcement experince, while in the Military. Part of our training was learning tactical building/room clearing. It works best with 2-3, but chances are you'll be going at it alone. If someone breaks into my apartment. I will till them stop, and order them to the deck. Now if they are standing there, but not making threats or even if they do threaten me. I will not shoot right away. Espeicaly if I have no visual on weapons. Now if I see a weapon, or not but they advance after I told them to get down. Depending on how far they are from me. I'll say stop or I'll shoot. If they come at me again, they are getting shot. The best way I think, is to talk them into the prone position. Have them cross there legs, with there arms out to their sides palms up. Makes it harder for them to grab for a weapon, if you can not see they have one. Then tell them to look away, so they can not see what you are doing. Keep your gun pointing at them, until police arive and take control. I only say this because it's how we trained, and it's what I know. Just be careful, if you decide to investigate a noise. Make sure to look for things, like doors that where closed or footprints where maybe they tracked it dirt. Just anything that looks suspicious. Always stay out of the fatal funnel (part of the door way with the least amount of cover). When you clear rooms, make sure you move fast so it's harder for them to get eyes on you. I practice, clearing my apartment. May sound funny, but I like being prepared the best I can.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

To drop or not to drop, that is the question... whether 'tis nobler in the mind...

I have a couple of thoughts on this, FWIW...

I'd try to always keep the arm trained upon the intruder, inform him to drop the weapon - any other motions other than the dropping of the weapon will result in death... and if need be, have the missus go get a piece as well, but keep arms trained upon him constantly, call the police and inform them that you have made a Citizen's Arrest.

This is assuming one doesn't feel like just dropping him right there - which, honestly, one could probably do without repercussion, if he didn't freeze.
(Yay for Indiana actually having reasonable law in this regard...)

As for confinement, I've never heard of any standard procedure, but knowing there is someone 7-10 feet from me with a shotgun trained on me would be reason enough for me to jolly-well obey any direct commands. Then again, I'm not dumb enough or inconsiderate enough to try to intrude into the dwellings of others - I like breathing too much and my own apartment suits me well enough. In the event he's hopped up on drugs or irrationally violent, well, that's when it's the big decision: either shoot him or handcuff him. Can't do both, unfortunately.... that is the one outcome that MIGHT raise some eyebrows....
"Well, Jim, I'd like to believe you that you felt your life and the life of your wife and kids were in imminent danger [note: imminent =/= immediate] but, well... he's cuffed on the floor and it looks like your wife gave him the 'Mozambique Drill'... so, we're going to have to take you down to the station, take a couple statements..."
Not good. ASP Tactical cuffs are about $55.00-60.00, last time I checked. One or two pair is well-worth the ability to restrain a violent intruder... getting them on would be the hard part, but like I said, the missus is there as backup; an attempt to tussle will result in swift, immediate death on his part... make sure he understands that and then one's biggest problem is explaining the situation to the then-incoming LEOs on-scene. Then again, I've never had this happen and thus have no experience in this at all... just a couple thoughts from this armchair-tactician. If possible, though, I would like some input from the better-informed/more-experienced as to viability or things I've not thought of... and I'm sure there's a lot I haven't even considered.

With training, putting on cuffs is really not that hard. Just be careful, that you have good control. If you do not have a loved one, etc with a gun on him/her.

 

[bigiron]

i have to say i'm a little suprised. there is alot of "order him to the deck and wait" talk going on. i spent a few years in LE and know the proper procedures for detainment and what positions and such but i must say this: it will not get that far. if i hear a bump and it prompts me to act, there will be no verbal commands, only loud bangs. no way will i give up the tactical adantage that i have by yelling at a BG. no cuffing, no commands, just a corpse on the living room floor. once i light him/her up and confirm the unwanted presence, it is over and my first concern is to isolate any further threat that may be lingering, like non-fatal wound or good actor or accomplice. then it is calling the police and letting them know to notify the coroner and haz-mat cleanup crew. the way i see it, if your dumb enough to enter knowing i'm home with my family with the intent to steal and/or harm, you are my enemy and i will show absolutely no mercy and i am fully covered by law to do so im my home)castle doctrine). if they are running out the door, hell run but i won't sleep for the next to months awaiting their return. lets hope it never happens though!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

i have to say i'm a little suprised. there is alot of "order him to the deck and wait" talk going on. i spent a few years in LE and know the proper procedures for detainment and what positions and such but i must say this: it will not get that far. if i hear a bump and it prompts me to act, there will be no verbal commands, only loud bangs. no way will i give up the tactical adantage that i have by yelling at a BG. no cuffing, no commands, just a corpse on the living room floor. once i light him/her up and confirm the unwanted presence, it is over and my first concern is to isolate any further threat that may be lingering, like non-fatal wound or good actor or accomplice. then it is calling the police and letting them know to notify the coroner and haz-mat cleanup crew. the way i see it, if your dumb enough to enter knowing i'm home with my family with the intent to steal and/or harm, you are my enemy and i will show absolutely no mercy and i am fully covered by law to do so im my home)castle doctrine). if they are running out the door, hell run but i won't sleep for the next to months awaiting their return. lets hope it never happens though!

Ok so lets say you are a defense atourney. You get a case about a guy, that shot and killed an intruder. He is completely truthful with you. He says I heard a bump, saw a man and just shot him. You ask was he armed? I do not know I just shot. IMO that's bad, if you have a jury full of Nazi anti-gunners you better pray. That's just my opinion. I mean if the guy just bumb rushes me, I'm going to shoot. If he gives threats, I'm not going to shoot him. He will have three choices.

1. Run like a *****
2. Get on the f'n ground, and let the cops take him away.
3. Keep advancing, after being warned he will be shot. Then get a bullet or two center mass.

Again just my opinion!