How to deal with neighbor who believes trees are adequate backstop

[mom45]

I have taken appropriate steps to address the situation and the authorities are keeping in close contact with me currently. Other than that, I can't say much but I have not noticed any fresh graves

 

[Tombs]

As for the rampant and reckless hunting going on in your area, I would solve that pretty quick.

Hammer some dollar store soap bars to trees on your property near where trespassing tree stands are.

Get some thorn and thistle seeds and spread them around the borders of your property in the offending areas.

Consider some battery powered motion detecting lights/alarms, place them on your property near the offending areas.

After all is said and done, they will be so fed up from the lack of deer near their favorite spot of YOUR property that they'll be forced to give it up.

As long as these things are only done in fairly small areas that are problem spots, you should still see some deer unless it's literally your entire property line. I'd give up hunting and become a vegetarian before I'd risk being shot on my own property.

 

[ART5420]

Consulting a lawyer would be a good idea. However I have to agree with the post that mentioned building a backstop for him. Lawyers and litigation are never cheap and you might not get the outcome you want anyway. You might approach him with reason and mentioned if he would mind if you contributed financially to building a backstop or even if you just went ahead and paid for it. You can also get used tires typically for free to build up side barriers and helping create his own range. Either way best of luck

 

[n9iui]

My brother once lived on a 4000 acre "island" in southern Indiana near New Harmony. His family was the only people living there and hunting was strictly regulated. Deer were plentiful, but not like is now a days. When they had a problem with trespassing deer hunters, my brother would drink all the iced tea he could hold and go for a walk, wizzimg all around the deer stands. Hunters couldn't figure out where the deer went.

 

[joliverjr]

It is comments like that posted by Giovani that makes people hesitate to ask for help in situations like this.

It shouldn't be his comment that causes you or others to hesitate to ask a forum of people you likely haven't met for advice on such a serious issue. It should be the fact that it is a pretty big legal issue with very real consequences. A lawyer really should be the first stop. That's just my opinion, I guess.

I'm curious about something. You mentioned that the other neighbors have been known to put up tree stands on your property or facing your property. Thus, they are hunting and shooting toward your property. Correct? You also mentioned that your husband has stands on your property, so you all are hunting your property, too. I just wonder how this doesn't go both ways. . . Do you have backstops in place (aside from your firing range)? Are you calling the police about the other neighbors that you said yourself must be shooting onto your property (which would be likely even if they weren't shooting at something on your property if the deer on their property is between them and your property)? So, the point is that you are sliding down a slippery slope if you try to force him to put up a backstop. If he has to, then you should have to line your property in every direction your husband intends to shoot while hunting. Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement.

In most circumstances, a good lawyer (and they do exist) is likely to tell you to try to work things out with the neighbor or do what you need to in order to make your property safe against him unless he actually breaks laws or hurts someone. Like it or not, angering a drunken idiot with a gun could put your family at more risk. Yeah, you might be able to act in self defense, but self defense after a loved one is shot doesn't undo the shooting. I'm a big fan of prevention over reaction when it comes to dealing with the safety of my loved ones.

 

[Bunnykid68]

It shouldn't be his comment that causes you or others to hesitate to ask a forum of people you likely haven't met for advice on such a serious issue. It should be the fact that it is a pretty big legal issue with very real consequences. A lawyer really should be the first stop. That's just my opinion, I guess.

I'm curious about something. You mentioned that the other neighbors have been known to put up tree stands on your property or facing your property. Thus, they are hunting and shooting toward your property. Correct? You also mentioned that your husband has stands on your property, so you all are hunting your property, too. I just wonder how this doesn't go both ways. . . Do you have backstops in place (aside from your firing range)? Are you calling the police about the other neighbors that you said yourself must be shooting onto your property (which would be likely even if they weren't shooting at something on your property if the deer on their property is between them and your property)? So, the point is that you are sliding down a slippery slope if you try to force him to put up a backstop. If he has to, then you should have to line your property in every direction your husband intends to shoot while hunting. Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement.

In most circumstances, a good lawyer (and they do exist) is likely to tell you to try to work things out with the neighbor or do what you need to in order to make your property safe against him unless he actually breaks laws or hurts someone. Like it or not, angering a drunken idiot with a gun could put your family at more risk. Yeah, you might be able to act in self defense, but self defense after a loved one is shot doesn't undo the shooting. I'm a big fan of prevention over reaction when it comes to dealing with the safety of my loved ones.

So, what you are saying is that every one that hunts needs to put up a proper backstop and wait for the prey to walk in front of it? That is how absurd some of what you have typed up reads

 

[mom45]

It shouldn't be his comment that causes you or others to hesitate to ask a forum of people you likely haven't met for advice on such a serious issue. It should be the fact that it is a pretty big legal issue with very real consequences. A lawyer really should be the first stop. That's just my opinion, I guess.

I'm curious about something. You mentioned that the other neighbors have been known to put up tree stands on your property or facing your property. Thus, they are hunting and shooting toward your property. Correct? You also mentioned that your husband has stands on your property, so you all are hunting your property, too. I just wonder how this doesn't go both ways. . . Do you have backstops in place (aside from your firing range)? Are you calling the police about the other neighbors that you said yourself must be shooting onto your property (which would be likely even if they weren't shooting at something on your property if the deer on their property is between them and your property)? So, the point is that you are sliding down a slippery slope if you try to force him to put up a backstop. If he has to, then you should have to line your property in every direction your husband intends to shoot while hunting. Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement.

In most circumstances, a good lawyer (and they do exist) is likely to tell you to try to work things out with the neighbor or do what you need to in order to make your property safe against him unless he actually breaks laws or hurts someone. Like it or not, angering a drunken idiot with a gun could put your family at more risk. Yeah, you might be able to act in self defense, but self defense after a loved one is shot doesn't undo the shooting. I'm a big fan of prevention over reaction when it comes to dealing with the safety of my loved ones.

Perhaps you need to read the state laws on shooting. It clearly states that the shooter is responsible for where their bullet lands. The hunters that are hunting the perimeter of our land are not endangering me due to unsafe shooting as my house is not that close to their stands. Again...we have 90 acres...not 5. They are, however, encroaching on our property and hunting illegally IF they are shooting deer that are not on their property at the time they shoot. Some MIGHT be but most likely are not. The last deer shot by a neighbor was clearly at least 15 feet on our side as evidenced by where its hooves dug in and it fell where shot and the drag marks where it was removed from our property. Could I have called the DNR and reported that. Sure. Do I want to make every neighbor mad at me. No. The DNR isn't likely to do much anyway if you don't SEE it happen and we did not. The neighbor called to tell us he had shot one, but did not tell us it was on our side. We discovered that when we went back to see if we could tell where it had been.

However, when someone is shooting and willfully destroying my property and we have attempted multiple times to discuss the unsafe manner in which they are shooting with them with no change in their behavior, I have no intention of talking to them further. I believe that once I got my questions answered somewhat on this forum, it is pretty clear from my previous posts that I have taken appropriate steps to do what is necessary to remedy this situation.

My husband is a safe hunter and none of his stands are anywhere close to the other properties where homes are built. He mainly bow hunts and I highly doubt an arrow is going to travel a quarter mile or more. His shotgun and muzzleloader are never shot in the direction of homes but rather into the main portion of our land. He doesn't shoot unless he knows he has a clear shot and I have yet to hear him shoot when I was not then called and told to get ready to help field dress and drag one in. He is perfectly capable of hitting his target as am I. We have enough land that we have no need to set a stand within 20 feet of the property line facing someone else's property.

 

[joliverjr]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you are in the wrong. I'm saying that the issue could turn and bite you in the butt. I mean, as soon as you say your part, your neighbor can say the "both ways" part and it could just lead to restrictions for the people that don't need them. That's what I mean by the slippery slope. Your husband may never shoot in their direction, but I have my doubts he can prove it. When you try to impose rules on one individual that is doing wrong, you have to bear in mind that the rule makers don't just take your word that you will be careful or that you are a good shot or whatever.

I don't give a crap about the laws on who is responsible for where a bullet lands. Laws aren't bullet proof. They don't protect anyone. If a loved one gets shot, try healing them with a law. Take comfort in knowing you are right, but not too much. Being right doesn't prevent wrong.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

So, mom...

Any update on the situation?

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm curious about something. You mentioned that the other neighbors have been known to put up tree stands on your property or facing your property. Thus, they are hunting and shooting toward your property. Correct? You also mentioned that your husband has stands on your property, so you all are hunting your property, too. I just wonder how this doesn't go both ways. . . Do you have backstops in place (aside from your firing range)? Are you calling the police about the other neighbors that you said yourself must be shooting onto your property (which would be likely even if they weren't shooting at something on your property if the deer on their property is between them and your property)? So, the point is that you are sliding down a slippery slope if you try to force him to put up a backstop. If he has to, then you should have to line your property in every direction your husband intends to shoot while hunting. Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement.

In most circumstances, a good lawyer (and they do exist) is likely to tell you to try to work things out with the neighbor or do what you need to in order to make your property safe against him unless he actually breaks laws or hurts someone. .

You can't compare hunters with someone shooting trees across property lines.
You do realize, don't you, that when a deer hunter is in a tree stand, the ground IS the backstop!?

 

[mom45]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you are in the wrong. I'm saying that the issue could turn and bite you in the butt. I mean, as soon as you say your part, your neighbor can say the "both ways" part and it could just lead to restrictions for the people that don't need them. That's what I mean by the slippery slope. Your husband may never shoot in their direction, but I have my doubts he can prove it. When you try to impose rules on one individual that is doing wrong, you have to bear in mind that the rule makers don't just take your word that you will be careful or that you are a good shot or whatever.

I don't give a crap about the laws on who is responsible for where a bullet lands. Laws aren't bullet proof. They don't protect anyone. If a loved one gets shot, try healing them with a law. Take comfort in knowing you are right, but not too much. Being right doesn't prevent wrong.

The DNR is well aware of what is going on here and where our stands are in relation to where the neighbors' stands are. We have nothing to prove or disprove. The DNR and the sheriff have both been here and well documented the situation. Not much more I can say on this for now without affecting what is being done. Without being familiar with the layout of our property, etc., it is probably harder for you to picture just what is going on and how unsafe it truly is.

 

[mom45]

So, mom...

Any update on the situation?

It is progressing better than I had expected. When I am free to say more, I will.

 

[joliverjr]

So, what you are saying is that every one that hunts needs to put up a proper backstop and wait for the prey to walk in front of it? That is how absurd some of what you have typed up reads

Evidently you miss the very clear part that said, "Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement." The point is, once you start imposing regulations on one person, you don't get to ignore them yourself. More regs only inconvenience those that already play it safe. If you require a backstop in the direction one person shoots, then you would have to require them for the directions everyone else shoots. Again, that would be a stupid requirement.

 

[joliverjr]

You can't compare hunters with someone shooting trees across property lines.
You do realize, don't you, that when a deer hunter is in a tree stand, the ground IS the backstop!?

You do realize, don't you, that when the ground that serves as that backstop is on your property and not the hunter's, the bullet is still passing onto your property? Again, wasn't suggesting backstops be imposed. Refer to the part of the post that clearly states, "Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement."

 

[Dirtebiker]

You do realize, don't you, that when the ground that serves as that backstop is on your property and not the hunter's, the bullet is still passing onto your property? Again, wasn't suggesting backstops be imposed. Refer to the part of the post that clearly states, "Obviously, that would be a stupid requirement."

This thread is mainly about the o.p.'s problem with her neighbor shooting up HER property.
The discussion of the other hunters is a side issue. No where has she said anything about requiring backstops for hunters.

It seems that you believe it should be HER responsibility to protect her property from Yosemite Sam, instead of Sam shooting in a safe manner at a safe backstop. Am I wrong?

And by the way, it DOES seem that Sam IS behaving illegally.

 

[SMiller]

Update?

 

[mom45]

Not much I can add right now...things are still progressing. Nothing fast about our legal system.

 

[joliverjr]

This thread is mainly about the o.p.'s problem with her neighbor shooting up HER property.
The discussion of the other hunters is a side issue. No where has she said anything about requiring backstops for hunters.

It seems that you believe it should be HER responsibility to protect her property from Yosemite Sam, instead of Sam shooting in a safe manner at a safe backstop. Am I wrong?

And by the way, it DOES seem that Sam IS behaving illegally.

I didn't say she said anything about backstops for hunters. Are you even actually reading the post or reading a few sentences and responding out of context?

Yes, it is her and her husband's responsibility to protect herself and her family from Yosemite Sam. Frankly, I don't think she disagrees with that sentiment as it sounds like she is taking this responsibility quite serious. If "Sam" is going to abide by safety and be a good citizen/neighbor, do you think this thread would even exist? Responsibility on his part only matters if he is willing to accept and act on it. Responsibility on our part requires us to accept the fact that bad people do not take responsibility for their actions. Bad people don't start acting like good people just because a law or possible legal repercussions. It slows some down, but there is a reason so many are repeat offenders. In my experience, bad people remain bad people. That is the very reason many of us own guns in the first place. We recognize that ultimately, the only people that are truly responsible, that we can really count on for protecting our loved ones are ourselves. Maybe you didn't notice the part of the very first post where the police said they couldn't do anything until something bad and illegal happens.

We went through some bad stuff with a neighbor. Let's just say he was disturbing the peace of my wife and daughters and some of the other parents in the neighborhood. I had a great lawyer (passed away) that truly advised me from his experiences and not just to make a buck. I told him a police officer in town advised we take certain expensive precautions because they can't do anything until the guy gets caught breaking the law. I was indignant. I mean, here I was in the right. THIS GUY was the threat. Why should I have to spend all that money because of him? My lawyer said, "If your daughter is molested and the guy goes to prison, you get to say 'I told you so.' Tell me, though, how good do you think you will feel about being proven right about this guy?" Obviously, his point was that if I fail to take precautions against a known threat just because I think someone else should be doing it for me, then I'm going to feel responsible for the outcome. He pointed out that I'd never forgive myself. I believe he was right and I believe I'm a better parent for having listened.

@mom45, I'm not suggesting you aren't taking precautions. I'm specifically responding to Dirtebiker.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Don't bring Yosemite Sam into this. He always uses a backstop! My boys saw an old cartoon of him the other day and asked me" Who is that hillbilly leprechaun dude?"
Hope it works out well for you Knox Mom. Good neighbors are a blessing and bad ones are the opposite.

 

[X piller X]

Return fire. You have the right of self defense.

i vote this one, whether he is firing at you or the tree, if there is fire in your direction, send it back his way.