How to run a gun shop--IMO

[findingZzero]

I can't rep him, but I *love* printcraft.

1. Do you guys use the same tailor?
2. Get a room.

 

[Hemingway]

Hohn I am sorry that many people want to bash your idea without offering an alternative. I would be glad to work in your new shop, let me know when and where. A small amount charged to fondle a selection of guns is a fabulous idea. Count me in. Let me assure you that the reason most of us like the 1500 and Gander Mountain isn't because of the prices, but because we have a good chance of fondling a lot of guns without having to get a salesman to show it to us. One serious modification to your idea that would sell tons of guns is to make them accessible to customers. Your new shop could have a wall of guns on display, each gun would be cabled to the wall, but still able to be picked up and held. Customers could walk up to the wall and fondle guns, and the salesman can be out from behind the counter assisting them. The guns would be hard to steal (they are cabled to the wall) and your salesman can help with questions that the customer has about a particular gun. I don't have a MBA and my english skills aren't great, but I think you are on the right path. Good luck, finally someone really wants to help customers, for that I say $5 is well worth it.

Yes, I agree. Treat the customer like an adult!!! Let him look at all the guns--don't lock them under glass or 20 feet behind the counter. Or, for that matter, get rid of the counter concept altogether and be out among the customers where they have as much access as you.

I'd recommend having those yellow safety barrels in the handguns on display, that prevents any safety issue. They can be fully manipulated, just not loaded. Your only concern then is theft, which a cabling or some other system could deter. Buzz people in/out?

If the entire process consists of better (and unique) treatment, people will gladly throw $5 bills at you all day long.

It seems like every contact I have at a gun store is an opportunity for the clerk to show me how smart he is about everything firearms related. Regurgitating crap about "manstoppers" and other myths. It seems they view each customer as a some hunger games of gun knowledge. I don't CARE what your IDPA ranking is. I don't CARE what you're brother-in-law's sergeant heard works well on the street. And I certainly don't care to hear about your opinions on "accurizing" a combat handgun. Geez. I have friends that ask me to go with them to gun stores for support because they've been made to feel like complete idiots when they try to find out information on their own there and try to express what they want.

I've always found it funny that salesmen generally kiss the customer's butt in almost every industry except the firearms industry. Then, it's the opposite, they tell the customer what they need and make them feel inadequate--like they are stooping low to even LET you hold a gun. Crazy. Car dealers will let you take a model home overnight and gun dealers act like the unloaded gun is going to spontaneously blow up and kill you the second you touch it. Anyway...getting off topic a bit

Some other "gold" benefits for your cover charge or membership---free transfers, whether unlimited or up to a certain amount. A transfer is virtually no work and free ones would drive business there. Or free sight installation--things like that.

 

[IUprof]

OP,

I admit I jumped to the end, but my is the strategy of differentiating your business on service, experience, atmosphere, etc. has to be moderated by what your customers are willing to accept and what they expect.

The market research data from this forum of gun owners suggests that the volume of customers willing to pay to coonfinger merchandise is too small to support a profitable business. Remember One of Porter's 5 Forces is the availability of substitutes and there are plenty of shops that would not charge the cover.

BTW, I wouldn't pay to look at any merchandise, well maybe the Indy 1500

 

[the1kidd03]

OP,

I admit I jumped to the end, but my is the strategy of differentiating your business on service, experience, atmosphere, etc. has to be moderated by what your customers are willing to accept and what they expect.

The market research data from this forum of gun owners suggests that the volume of customers willing to pay to coonfinger merchandise is too small to support a profitable business. Remember One of Porter's 5 Forces is the availability of substitutes and there are plenty of shops that would not charge the cover.

BTW, I wouldn't pay to look at any merchandise, well maybe the Indy 1500

Little different context at the 1500 though. There's food, interaction with a variety of vendors, thousands of like minded folks. That's more of a fee for entertainment purposes than to have an opportunity to shop, IMO.

 

[Birds Away]

You sir have your first customer! When I walk into any store, be it a gun shop, clothing store or grocery store I know what I want so being forced to wait for service because someone is just looking pisses me off and wastes my time. I just purchased a new gun at (gasp) Gander Mountain because the local owned shops did not have what I wanted and "could not" order it for me. I had to take a number and wait ~20 minutes to spend a good deal of money, pissing me off. However, the people who worked there were nice, polite, friendly, worked quickly and thoroughly to complete the transaction. In short if waiting times for serious buyers was eliminated at a place I'm spending hundreds of dollars I would be a repeat customer.
I do my browsing online, at gun shows and at the shooting range.

I guess everyone is different. I do respect your perspective. It just doesn't work for me. When I realized you had to take a number in Gander I walked out. I had purchased two guns in there before they instituted the "take a number" bit. They were the only ones local who had what I was looking for. I no longer consider them an option for my money. Besides, some of the things I have heard their salespeople tell customers would either infuriate you or make you die laughing depending on your personality.

 

[drillsgt]

Exactly. There are times when I may be window shopping today in anticipation of buying in the future. You burn me now and I most certainly won't do business with you again, even if it's years down the road.

When we were building our house we needed to buy furniture for it. An unnamed store blew us off and treated us poorly because we were just looking that day, not actually buying. As a result, they lost a VERY large sale when it did come time to buy.

What furniture store was that? Everytime we go and just say were looking we still get stalked

 

[drillsgt]

That your THEORY would work well.......if you were the only game in town.

You would not be however, and people would not pay somethin for nothing. They prefer to get everything for nothing. You are asking/expecting to go the complete opposite direction that a consumer is "taught" to.


signatures are free

You got that right, at the shop I worked at we had a box full of random cheap stuff that people could pick something out of with a gun purchase and people loved it, they would look through that box like it was treasure, but it was something "free".

 

[drillsgt]

I guess everyone is different. I do respect your perspective. It just doesn't work for me. When I realized you had to take a number in Gander I walked out. I had purchased two guns in there before they instituted the "take a number" bit. They were the only ones local who had what I was looking for. I no longer consider them an option for my money. Besides, some of the things I have heard their salespeople tell customers would either infuriate you or make you die laughing depending on your personality.

I hate that take a number system as well, I got burned on a nice used springfield that way. After about an hour waiting someone ahead of me bought it so I wasted all that time, good for them though I talked to them in line and they had been there about 2 hours, not worth it to me. Most of the hour waiting was probably people just wasting time, maybe the OP's on to something? I did buy a gun at Gander the other day but only because there wasn't a wait and I could grab a number and immediately go buy what I had picked out. Maybe they need 2 numbers, time wasters and those who know exactly what they are going to buy.

 

[nucone]

Yes and no. Only engineers that offer services directly to the public must be licensed by taking the ABET-approved courses.

I work for a private firm and hence need no license whatsoever.

But thanks for the heads up. Or scare tactic, whichever.

Whoa cowboy - there is a big difference between claiming to be an engineer and claiming exemption from licensing by being an employee of a firm that may have a Certificate of Authorization. This is no scare tactic, just a matter of law. Again, this depends on your state laws. Claiming to be an engineer (as an individual) either written or verbal when you do not hold a license is illegal in my state. I don't know, maybe your state law permits such claims.

Regardless, back on topic - let us know how your cover charge works out when you open your gunshop. Good luck.

 

[rvb]

The first time I came to the door to look through your inventory and was told I had to pay $ to get through the door, I would turn around and never come back. I don't care if you are selling guns, cars, hammers, or milk. How would I even know you had what I wanted in stock, and at a price I wanted to pay?

And don't try to tell me people pay it at gun shows... there you are paying the vendor for the service of bringing all the dealers to one location. What are you doing for me with your cover charge?

Today's tire kicker is tomorrow's buyer.

-rvb

 

[The Spud]

One theme that keeps coming out of Hohn's replies is SERVICE. I'm still waiting to hear how his store will differentiate itself from all the other stores on the service aspect.

For $5 (or $10 depending if you have an appointment), do I get to sit in a nice overstuffed leather chair, sipping a well aged single malt Scotch whisky, puffing away on full bodied cigar whilst models that look like they walked out of the latest James Bond movie deliver to me the firearms I selected on an iPad based menu system for me to coonfing ... er, I mean peruse?

Anything short of that, sorry, I'll stick to my way of shopping. But thank you for the opportunity to review your business model.

By the way, I would hazard a guess that the way you respond to and treat people on this forum, is a good indicator of how you would treat customers. Perhaps not at first, but eventually the true personality would come out.

Again, thank you, but as they say on Shark Tank, I'm out.

 

[Hohn]

One theme that keeps coming out of Hohn's replies is SERVICE. I'm still waiting to hear how his store will differentiate itself from all the other stores on the service aspect.

For $5 (or $10 depending if you have an appointment), do I get to sit in a nice overstuffed leather chair, sipping a well aged single malt Scotch whisky, puffing away on full bodied cigar whilst models that look like they walked out of the latest James Bond movie deliver to me the firearms I selected on an iPad based menu system for me to coonfing ... er, I mean peruse?

Now this ^^ is a great idea.

Is Dalmore to your liking?

 

[LarryC]

I've never run a business. I'm finishing up my MBA, and I have some ideas that have occurred to me, but I'm not any kind of expert. You might think it presumptive of me to think I know how to run a gun shop. That's OK.


The problem with most gun shops is that they do a terrible job of separating coonfingers from shoppers and real buyers. How can you tell the difference? Appearance? Past transactions? None of these are reliable indicators.

How do you give your most valuable, serious customers fantastic service by not wasting a crapload of time on tire-kickers that want to shoot the breeze and do little else?

I think you can do it by charging for time. If I am a gun shop owner that has good advice to offer and lots of different guns for you to grip and fondle to find what works best for you, then that time is worth something-- to BOTH of us, proprietor and customer alike.

So instead of trying to make money on selling guns (cranking up prices), you sell guns at lower prices and sell SERVICE to make up the difference.


How would you like to go to a shop and not have to wait in line as much, if at all? To not fight some other customer for attention? To KNOW that you are going to get individualized service?

It takes a change in how you look at the business. You are not a 'gun shop' per se, but rather a 'personal defense consultant'-- and like other consultants, TIME and expertise is what's for sale.

Here's how I'd work it. First, you have to split the store into two parts: the 'gun' part and the 'everything else' part (ammo, holsters, powder, whatever).

Then you set up a refundable cover charge for the gun part. Come on in and look all you want for $5. But you will waiting in line behind those folks that paid $10 for an actual appointment time and individualized attention. Expect good service, just at slightly less priority.

The customer that is actually interesting in buying will pay the $10 because it's cheap for the vastly improved experience when spending a big chunk of cash. Those who want to look around can still do so, just expect potentially less service for $5 if you don't buy anything.

Those who never want to buy anything are not likely to pay the $5 at all and will go mess with some other shop.

Price your guns and ammo at competitive prices so people know that it is SERVICE they are paying for. IOW, no $700 Glocks.

Best of all, because the customer got great service AND a good price, they are likely to come back. It also makes it far less likely that you have as many people come in the door that just want to handle guns. These people expect the retailer to give them a bunch of time for free! Time on non-paying-gawkers vs paying customers is not equally valuable. Reduce the gawkers and give the real customers a better chance at the TIME that is so valuable.

$5 is low enough that folks who aren't necessarily buyers but are serious lookers can still afford it. It's just enough deterrent to filter out the very bottom feeders.

Competing purely on price is a loser. Anyone can call around and price check. You have to win on SERVICE. You can deliver to the customer a superior overall experience this is a much better VALUE.

As any waiter will tell you, good service is worth money.

Your $10 customers get the best service possible, and the $5 customers get far BETTER service than they could get at any "free" shop because they won't have to compete with nearly as many lookie-loos for employee attention.


I came up with the basic idea for a music store because they are the WORST stores of all to deal with. Pity the guy trying to demo and buy a premium guitar.

Well, the first thing I have to say is that I would NEVER invest in any business you own. One of the basic tenets of business is that you need traffic (people walking or driving by) in order to succeed. You advertize and have "draw" items with little or no markup, in order to get people browsing in your store.

Most successful businesses want people to "coonfinger" their merchandise. The more traffic in your store the better. I would say on average 60 to 70% of the people going into a GS are not buying a firearm that day (and that may be low).

But if you let them handle the merchandise, they may find something they really like - go home and save up a little money and return. Charging a fee to look at merchandise would certainly stop me (and most people) from entering that store EVER!

There goes the traffic and the buyers. You also forget that many of the GS buyers are educated about firearms - and certainly don't want some self educated (no matter how well educated) individual telling them what they want!

I am a collector of firearms - been doing it for years! I don't try to tell others what they "Want or need" as each person is different. I darn sure wouldn't pay a Nickel for anyone to give me advice.

 

[Hohn]

Larry, your input echos the commentary of others. I think the emerging consensus is that this is NOT the way someone would expect a gun shop to be run.

 

[LarryC]

Interesting. Some will pay $15 to get in a show and spend the same in gas to get there and yet the idea proposed is shot down. Entertainment vs. ... what?

There is a whole lot of difference. First a Gun Show is an arena with multiple vendors gathered in one location with many different specialties, some that only display at the gun shows. They have holsters, new and used, used firearm parts and accessories, Military surplus, rare items (from musket parts to bulk ammo), reloading equipment and supplies displayed.

A Gun Shop is normally owned by a person and has a set price with no immediate competition! They (even Bradis) have a limited inventory. To view the same firearm inventory, and accessories from multiple vendors would require that you drive hundreds of miles and spend days of your time and still not see the specialty vendors that have no physical shop.

In my area - I can attend GS's at Lafayette, Kokomo, Tipton etc. for $5 and less than a 50 mile round trip.

 

[The Spud]

Now this ^^ is a great idea.

Is Dalmore to your liking?

The Dalmore is quite good. Should I bring my Scotch cubes?

 

[LarryC]

Whoa cowboy - there is a big difference between claiming to be an engineer and claiming exemption from licensing by being an employee of a firm that may have a Certificate of Authorization. This is no scare tactic, just a matter of law. Again, this depends on your state laws. Claiming to be an engineer (as an individual) either written or verbal when you do not hold a license is illegal in my state. I don't know, maybe your state law permits such claims.

Regardless, back on topic - let us know how your cover charge works out when you open your gunshop. Good luck.

In the state of Indiana there is NO provision for state certification - period!

I worked as a Professional Engineer for about 40 years for the same company before retiring - never had a license although did work on many million dollar projects.

Last project was the transfer of the punch press and mold department from Sparta, Tenn to Frankfort In. for Mallory, a division of Emerson Electric. I was also the Management Representative for the QS-9000 and ISO programs at Mallory.

I was at many General Motors plants and dealt with them on a frequent basis for years. We were the major supplier of their Brake / cruise switches and other controls.

There are independent Certified Engineers in Indiana. Believe it or not being Certified only means someone (anyone) issued a certificate stating THEY approve you as an Engineer. This can be from a trade school, an Internet site or your neighbor. The only time it has validity is when the reputation of the "Certificate" is respected in the field. Like a diploma - Purdue means something - some of the "Internet - earn your degree at home - prior knowledge is credits" institutions (scams) have no validity.

 

[rhino]

In the state of Indiana there is NO provision for state certification - period!

I worked as a Professional Engineer for about 40 years for the same company before retiring - never had a license although did work on many million dollar projects.

Are you sure about that? Or do you actually mean that you were a professional (i.e. paid) and that your job title or description was "engineer"? A lot of people are legitimately engineers and paid to do it who are not Professional Engineers.

Indiana and every other state in the union has Professional Engineer licensing. To call yourself a PE means that you have one of those licenses, which you obtain by first completing the Fundamentals of Engineering Exam to become and Engineer in Training (EIT). Then, depending on your discipline, you have to apprentice with another PE where you work, and finally take the licensing exam(s) and pass them. Then you become a PE.

Here's some info for you: PLA: State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers

 

[LarryC]

Whoa cowboy - there is a big difference between claiming to be an engineer and claiming exemption from licensing by being an employee of a firm that may have a Certificate of Authorization. This is no scare tactic, just a matter of law. Again, this depends on your state laws. Claiming to be an engineer (as an individual) either written or verbal when you do not hold a license is illegal in my state. I don't know, maybe your state law permits such claims.

Regardless, back on topic - let us know how your cover charge works out when you open your gunshop. Good luck.

In the state of Indiana there is NO provision for state certification except for "Professional Engineer" . None for any Industrial Engineer, Quality, Production or Manufacturing Engineering title.

The "Professional Engineer" license does help independent Engineers who work as consultants obtain employment. I believe this license is also required to approve site drawings for buildings, Bridges etc. and do safety analysis of damaged structures - other reasons may be to design for cities - sewage, water, electrical grids etc.

I worked as a Industrial / Manufacturing / Quality Engineer for about 40 years for the same company before retiring - never had a license although did work on many million dollar projects. I was at many General Motors plants and dealt with them on a frequent basis for years. We were the major supplier of their Brake / cruise switches and other controls.

Last project was the transfer of the punch press and mold department from Sparta, Tenn to Frankfort In. for Mallory, a division of Emerson Electric. I was also the Management Representative for the QS-9000 and ISO programs at Mallory.

There are independent "Certified" Engineers in Indiana. Believe it or not being Certified only means someone (anyone) issued a certificate stating THEY approve you as an Engineer. This can be from a trade school, an Internet site or your neighbor. The only time it has validity is when the reputation of the "Certificate" is respected in the field. Like a diploma - Purdue means something - some of the "Internet - earn your degree at home - prior knowledge is credits" institutions (scams) have no validity. Obviously the term Certified does not allow them to do the same things as a licensed "Professional Engineer".

 

[printcraft]

Larry, your input echos the commentary of others. I think the emerging consensus is that this is NOT the way someone would expect a gun shop to be run.