How would you react?

[Thegeek]

The only thing Evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

Stand by and watch someone get beaten.... nope
Stand by and watch a bully.... nope
Stand by and watch a crime without taking a stand against it.... nope

I can not, I will not, stand by and watch as something goes down. Whether I call the cops, or intervene if I think there isn't time to wait. I'll get out and yell the cops are on their way, take pictures or video with my phone, or even stand in front of the weaker victim. I stood by and watched along with dozens of others once in college as a guy was beaten by three men. His offence was that while they were harassing a girl, he spoke up "just leave her alone". He spent a few days in the hospital because none of us had the courage to stop it. I've felt guilty about not standing with him, and I'll never stand by again.

 

[dansgotguns]

This.

This.

 

[Khazik]

Recently I was in traffic on the south side of Indy 37 Northbound. Got to a red light, car behind me pulled up, driver swung his door open and ran back to the car behind him. At first I thought maybe he knew them, but then he threw his hands up and started yelling. He was almost to the point of pounding on the windows of the car. The occupants of that car just kept the windows up and didn't do anything to antagonize him.

Not knowing the "backstory" behind why this guy is mad at them, would you intervene if he began beating on the windows or attempting to get into the car any other way?

I was carrying at the time, and didn't want to see anybody injured, but also, not knowing the back-story didn't want to get invovled if I didn't have to. Ultimately I ended up making a snap decisions and I sat there until he walked back to his car and got in. Thankfully the situation defused on it's own, but it brought up a good question that I've been wondering about.

Would you do as I did and watch the situation intervening if necessary?
Watch just to be a good witness but don't get involved no matter what happens?
Or pull away because it's not your concern?

P.S. A mile or 2 down the road I saw red and blues in the traffic at least 3/4 mi back working his way forward. I had a sneaking suspicion that he might be coming after this guy. It took him a while to fight through traffic up to where I was. The "offender" was about 1/10 mil ahead of me and turning right just as the LEO caught up. LEO didn't see him turning right until he passed the intersection. The LEO then proceeded to show some very skilled driving . He darted right through a gap in cars onto the shoulder, all the while he was on full-brakes, and slammed it into reverse high-tailing it back to the intersection in reverse on the shoulder. Seeing as how I had some what pulled right to let him pass and knew the offender has turned right, I knew he would likely be slowing down and going back. So I had completely stopped where I was, right past the intersection on the right shoulder (in his path), so I jumped into the left lane quick and gave him lots of room.

Depends if a weapon was brandished or if the situation escalates beyond a domestic dispute/argument.

No weapons: I'll take pics and memorize the plate #, making very good mental notes, call police if any damage is being done.
Weapons: Pulls a crowbar-same as above + more detailed notes, location, car color, offender visual attributes, etc..
Pulls a gun: I pull mine, see where it goes from there (*note* I never said pull & aim). He aims, I drop him. Pulling in front of someone, getting out, brandishing a weapon isn't self defense, it's murder. Both times w/weapons, I would be vocally involved.

It's all about escalation of force. As the 3rd party, you never escalate the situation if you want a good outcome, unless "shock and awe" is what you're going for (i.e. calm argument then to temper-tantrum throwing things and yelling) to essentially bully the other party to back down; this doesn't work on a disciplined mind however (martial arts, military, etc..) nor is it good for the average person to aid in a situation unless self-defense
.

The only thing Evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

Stand by and watch someone get beaten.... nope
Stand by and watch a bully.... nope
Stand by and watch a crime without taking a stand against it.... nope

I can not, I will not, stand by and watch as something goes down. Whether I call the cops, or intervene if I think there isn't time to wait. I'll get out and yell the cops are on their way, take pictures or video with my phone, or even stand in front of the weaker victim. I stood by and watched along with dozens of others once in college as a guy was beaten by three men. His offence was that while they were harassing a girl, he spoke up "just leave her alone". He spent a few days in the hospital because none of us had the courage to stop it. I've felt guilty about not standing with him, and I'll never stand by again.

My sentiments as well. Because of my history of being bullied, I will always intervene. It's all it takes, for good to do nothing, then evil can prosper and do as it pleases.

In short: it all depends on the situation. As a 3rd party I'd never escalate the situation (weapons) unless necessary (i.e. gang beatdown). Just depends on the situation and totality of the circumstances.

 

[danil]

That the same thing that happened up here a couple weeks ago-- a younger 35-40 year old hot head is riding along side this car driven by an elderly woman and he's just yelling and carrying on out the window while driving... then he gets out of his vehicle and starts yelling at her while standing next to the passenger window. Traffic starts moving-- he gets back into his vehicle and proceeds to antagonize this lady and repeats the out of car yelling again at the next light.

I figure he may just follow here home and !@#$%^. So, I get into the traffic position just behind here car and still with her-- but did not say anything to antagonize the hothead. I got the camera phone so started videotaping the scene discreetly. Figured that if he started something I would start by just laying on the horn. (I also had 3 kids in the car with me)

Another 1/4 mile in traffic and she finally turns off the street and catches a left turn that he could not catch. We still behind her and stay with until we are sure he didn't catch up.

Plan was to call police if it got more intense and intervene if needed.

 

[JettaKnight]

Recently I was in traffic on the south side of Indy 37 Northbound. Got to a red light, car behind me pulled up, driver swung his door open and ran back to the car behind him. At first I thought maybe he knew them, but then he threw his hands up and started yelling. He was almost to the point of pounding on the windows of the car. The occupants of that car just kept the windows up and didn't do anything to antagonize him.

Not knowing the "backstory" behind why this guy is mad at them, would you intervene if he began beating on the windows or attempting to get into the car any other way?

Maybe the occupant just ran over his cat.... or stole his lawnmower... or nearly hit a kid because they didn't observe the flashing lights of a school bus... or maybe she was taking photographs of homes.

Be very careful about making good guy/bad guy assessments.

 

[Signal23]

Phone it in, stay out of it.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Maybe the occupant just ran over his cat.... or stole his lawnmower... or nearly hit a kid because they didn't observe the flashing lights of a school bus... or maybe she was taking photographs of homes.

Be very careful about making good guy/bad guy assessments.

I understand that. But at the time leading up to the incident, both occupants were in their vehicle. At the point that one gets out that person is escalating it. No matter which individual is at fault for the "tension" between the 2 vehicles, getting out and escalating it that changes the situation. If it escalated to violence and I was in fear that one could be in danger of grave bodily injury or death, would I be wrong in intervening? Even if the original instigator is the one being in danger of grave bodily injury?

I still have a hard time with standing by because of this.

The only thing Evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

Stand by and watch someone get beaten.... nope
Stand by and watch a bully.... nope
Stand by and watch a crime without taking a stand against it.... nope

I can not, I will not, stand by and watch as something goes down. Whether I call the cops, or intervene if I think there isn't time to wait. I'll get out and yell the cops are on their way, take pictures or video with my phone, or even stand in front of the weaker victim. I stood by and watched along with dozens of others once in college as a guy was beaten by three men. His offence was that while they were harassing a girl, he spoke up "just leave her alone". He spent a few days in the hospital because none of us had the courage to stop it. I've felt guilty about not standing with him, and I'll never stand by again.

 

[cotter999]

I would not intervein unless it was going too far. I have interveined in the past in bars (not with a gun). I stopped a man from beating his wife in the bar. He got kicked out. 3 hours later he was still outside the bar waiting for me to come out when it closed and I got hit in the face with a bat. Makes me a little hesitant now.

 

[Skywired]

I would not intervein unless it was going too far. I have interveined in the past in bars (not with a gun). I stopped a man from beating his wife in the bar. He got kicked out. 3 hours later he was still outside the bar waiting for me to come out when it closed and I got hit in the face with a bat. Makes me a little hesitant now.

Excuse the pun, but i just gotta ask: Was it a Louisville Slugger???

 

[reesez]

Basically, similar situation happened to me this past summer.

Some dude and his lady friend are aggressively arguing on their front porch across the street. I sat in the window (as a good witness) with the local PD ready to be called. Things eventually subsided. The dude left and we didn't hear much from him afterwards.

My wife and I both talked about it at length. Our perspective was if we 'notice' the situation after it's escalated to punches being thrown, we still would not intervene unless it's imminent death/bodily harm. Even at that point, it's a scary line to cross. The problem is, as the OP stated, we (the third party) aren't privy to all the facts. When we see punches being thrown, is the guy defending himself from the girl or vice versa ? At that point, it's a tough call. The right call, would be to PD and still keep watch. If someone brandishes a weapon, that might be a good time to get involved and help neutralize things.

If you don't have all the facts and details, being a good witness and the guy to make the phone call is an excellent first step.

That brings up a question I have. If you see a crime, or an altercation like that, is it legal to hold the perp there with your firearm pointed at them until police arrive? Or is that criminal confinement?

 

[Frosty]

Excuse the pun, but i just gotta ask: Was it a Louisville Slugger???

but seriously, OUCH!

 

[Indy60]

That brings up a question I have. If you see a crime, or an altercation like that, is it legal to hold the perp there with your firearm pointed at them until police arrive? Or is that criminal confinement?

I can think of a few they could throw at you. Intimidation, criminal recklessness with a firearm, brandishing a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, and of course the criminal confinement if convicted of any of the previous I mentioned. Not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holliday Inn last year.

 

[Frosty]

I can think of a few they could throw at you. Intimidation, criminal recklessness with a firearm, brandishing a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, and of course the criminal confinement if convicted of any of the previous I mentioned. Not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holliday Inn last year.

My deepest sympathies about the holiday inn... So wouldn't you holding someone be considered a badass citizens arrest? I mean why arrest somebody who is doing 50% of the LEOs work for them?

 

[ar15]

I would watch and relay info and descriptions to police dispatch. I would intervene once it got to the next level

 

[Indy60]

My deepest sympathies about the holiday inn... So wouldn't you holding someone be considered a badass citizens arrest? I mean why arrest somebody who is doing 50% of the LEOs work for them?

I said could get charged, not would. And I did state a disclaimer.

 

[reesez]

I said could get charged, not would. And I did state a disclaimer.

I love your sig btw. I mean I have always wondered.

 

[Frosty]

I said could get charged, not would. And I did state a disclaimer.

I just figured with my luck I would get charged... Sorry, not trying to make assumptions, I'm the guy that walks by a LEO and he says HEY, come here for a minute

 

[BehindBlueI's]

On a cell phone the 911 call gets routed first to the state dispatch (somewhere) then based on what you tell them, could be a bit of a hassle for them to effectively get the call routed properly to the local PD for dispatch. I'm a cell phone weenie

It MAY be routed to a state police post if the cell tower thinks its the appropriate agency, but that's far from universal throughout the state. The network tries to figure out where you are and then route you to the correct dispatch center. Some smaller towns don't have a full time police department, let alone a dispatch center. If you aren't familiar with the local PD and aren't sure its got a manned desk 24/7, you may be in for a surprise if you try to call for an emergency.

I used to dispatch for Scott County many years ago, and I can assure you that 911 calls made within our county came straight to the Scott Co dispatch center with few exceptions, and then we'd dispatch the deputies or city police as appropriate (also fire and EMS). Sometimes one on the border of the county would go to Clark county instead, or vice versa and we'd get one of theirs. Also, via mutual aid, if all 3 of our lines were busy our calls would ring into Clark Co.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

As to the OP, if I'd probably hit my visor lights to let them know I was a police officer, and then see WTF the problem is.

Get out of your car on the roadway and try to get in someone else's car in what seems like a road rage incident? He's probably going to jail absent some really extenuating circumstances (the guy in the car behind me is choking, I'm trying to get him out to do the Heimlich!). You never know until you investigate...

 

[pwoller]

People around Indy are getting so agressive. I had a guy ride my tail then honk at me when I signaled and slowed down to turn left. God forbid I slow you down by turning.