I have been reinforcing my decision to never again fly in an airplane.

[dsol]

When I was little I was very afraid of flying but the flight staff was very good. After landing the pilot was shaking hands as people deplaned, they used to do that. I asked him why he wanted to be a pilot, I can't imagine since I'm afraid of flying. He said actually he became a pilot to overcome his fear also. I was shocked. You were afraid of flying!? He said no, I was always afraid of dying alone.

So how often do planes crash?

Usually just once...

 

[bobzilla]

And the discussion is about one of the things I hate about air travel not having assigned seats and bins thereby eliminating the “cattle calls”. I ponder why? My best guess is the bean counters found the “castle call“ boarding (and even the line jumpers) are faster giving the airline the gate quicker for another flight…

we have flown once without assigned seats and that was with a very budget airline.

 

[Ingomike]

we have flown once without assigned seats and that was with a very budget airline.

Southwest is the biggest culprit of this…

 

[bobzilla]

Southwest is the biggest culprit of this…

we don't fly with them so.... yeah.

 

[chipbennett]

And the discussion is about one of the things I hate about air travel not having assigned seats and bins thereby eliminating the “cattle calls”. I ponder why? My best guess is the bean counters found the “castle call“ boarding (and even the line jumpers) are faster giving the airline the gate quicker for another flight…

A Main Cabin or higher fare class ticket on every major airline except Southwest comes with a self-selected, assigned seat. There's simply no need to rush the boarding lane/area. Your seat is assigned and waiting for you.

As for overhead bin space: I have long held that I think airlines should allow at least one free checked bag, and then charge for overhead bin space. (Give the frequent flyers and CC holders a free carry-on perk, the way that they currently have a free checked-bag perk.) That would allow for the casual/infrequent flyers to check their bags, thereby avoiding the rush for the overhead bins - and also would eliminate the attempts to use bigger and bigger carry-on bags, stuffed ever-more-full, to avoid checked-bag fees. The frequent flyers already know what size carry-on luggage works on which planes, and know how to pack them properly.

Gate-checking bags slows down the boarding/de-boarding processes. Having to do the carry-on walk of shame back up the plane aisle to gate check a bag that was carried on but doesn't fit in the bin slows down the boarding process. Gate lice getting in the way of currently-boarding passengers slows down the boarding process. Having to police line-jumpers slows down the boarding process.

 

[Ingomike]

A Main Cabin or higher fare class ticket on every major airline except Southwest comes with a self-selected, assigned seat. There's simply no need to rush the boarding lane/area. Your seat is assigned and waiting for you.

As for overhead bin space: I have long held that I think airlines should allow at least one free checked bag, and then charge for overhead bin space. (Give the frequent flyers and CC holders a free carry-on perk, the way that they currently have a free checked-bag perk.) That would allow for the casual/infrequent flyers to check their bags, thereby avoiding the rush for the overhead bins - and also would eliminate the attempts to use bigger and bigger carry-on bags, stuffed ever-more-full, to avoid checked-bag fees. The frequent flyers already know what size carry-on luggage works on which planes, and know how to pack them properly.

Gate-checking bags slows down the boarding/de-boarding processes. Having to do the carry-on walk of shame back up the plane aisle to gate check a bag that was carried on but doesn't fit in the bin slows down the boarding process. Gate lice getting in the way of currently-boarding passengers slows down the boarding process. Having to police line-jumpers slows down the boarding process.

Thanks you made me realize I don't hate flying, I hate people…

 

[bobzilla]

Thanks you made me realize I don't hate flying, I hate people…

I've known this for at least 15 years. People ******* suck donkey ****.

 

[Shadow01]

My luggage fits my car. We board when we choose and decar at our leisure. Plus I don’t have to deal with karen that couldn’t fit in 2 seats if we folded her in half and her constant complaining that something doesn’t suit her cheap seat ticket that she won in some raffle.

 

[bobzilla]

My luggage fits my car. We board when we choose and decar at our leisure. Plus I don’t have to deal with karen that couldn’t fit in 2 seats if we folded her in half and her constant complaining that something doesn’t suit her cheap seat ticket that she won in some raffle.

Really hard to find that bridge to anywhere not in the continental US.... and then there's the time issue. When you spend 2-3 days driving TO your destination, that leaves less time there. I get it, you'll never fly in one of those death tubes. Got it. Some of us want to see other things outside the continental US and that requires flying.

As I mentioned earlier, if you're just going to be mad the entire time, maybe you need some introspection to find out what is really going on. Because sucky people are everywhere and if you can't laugh it off and move on with your life it's going to suck.

 

[firecadet613]

Zero issues when I fly 4-5 times a year for business (usually Delta or Southwest) and I have pre check. It's not an issue in Indy, but when coming home from Atlanta or another big city it comes in handy. At Indy, I try to pull in the garage 30 minutes before boarding begins.

We've began to fly more as a family (typically Southwest) and its really not an issue. Only carry ons and since we have a little one, we board before the B group boards. Even got the wife pre check to help us speed the process.

Routines help, and even the kids have figured out to follow along with what dad does, he's got it figured out.

I may check a bag for the first time in years when we head to Yellowstone, haven't decided if I'll bring my EDC. We change flights each way, so really not sure it's worth the hassle or risk of it getting lost...

 

[BE Mike]

Just found out I get to go to Brussels for a work conference in September. Sure am not driving there!

I don't think I'd fly to Brussels, Wisconsin. It isn't that far away.

 

[BE Mike]

I haven't flown the commercial airlines in decades. It sure looks like the war to lower prices has put the experience in the toilet. If, by some hex that is put on me and I fly the airlines, looks like I'll have to dig deeper into my wallet and upgrade.

 

[cbhausen]

I just love it when THE WHOLE PLANE* jumps up when stopping at the arrival gate. Then they all stand there hunched over to clear the overhead bins until they can get into the aisle to retrieve their bloated carry-on bags.

*Except me. I stay comfortably seated until it’s my turn to get up and deplane. What’s so hard about that?

Like Butt-Head says, “some people are dumb”.

 

[BugI02]

It's an interesting dynamic to watch people. Both crowding the gate knowing their boarding group is 10 minutes from being called and standing up/blocking aisles when it's not there turn to move.

We chose bulk head seats for each leg of our last flight so we were easy on/easy off for the most part. Only downside there is the little fold out tables to try and balance your meal on vs the much more solid fold downs.

I have a soft-sided canvas and leather carry on bag shaped like a loaf of bread, 8 x 10 x 22 I think. It is designed to fit under just about any seat in the industry and my valuables I don't want out of my possession go in it with a change of clothing. I NEVER want to compete for overhead space, it's too annoying and too effed up to access anything in the bag easily. I also have a Targus bag that holds my MacBook, chargers, cords etc and all my reading material and is my personal item

Depending on length of stay, I do check a bag. I used to have status before I retired but that ran out so I got a branded credit card from my favorite carrier that takes care of first bag fees. I usually prefer to connect in a high plains hub like DEN or SLC because by the time 3+ hours have elapsed inside tube one I'm very ready to get up and move around. Non-stop to the west coast for me is 4.5 to 5 hrs and that is longer than I prefer to sit around

Even going to Hawaii, I prefer to overnight in PDX and switch to a very early Hawaiian Air A330 the next morning all rested up

You're correct that a little stoicism goes a long way, but the flip side is I began traveling regularly for business prior to deregulation in the era of limited competition on specific routes. I remember - vividly - how good it was/could be, so the contrast is extra poignant

Vis a vis cruising, we're not fans but did find that when we wanted to see western Italy - Pompeii, Herculaneum, even Milan, renting a car was too byzantine and hotels were too primitive. We found flying in and out of FCO and getting a cruise to W Italy and Greek isles to work best for us. Downside is the cruise organizes the excursions but one had to take a guided tour of Pompeii and Herculaneum in order to go at all so no loss. We left a couple days on the backside to return to Rome and do touristy stuff there. Could just as easily left 5 or 6 and gone to Tuscany instead

2 out of 3 hotels in W Italy seemed to not have A/C, which required more stoicism than I was willing to deploy

Without having any status to leverage or care about, like you I have found some of the best rides to be on national flag carriers

 

[BugI02]

Yeah, but do you go stand in, or very near, the line so you're first in your boarding group that's 6 calls away or try to sneak on with a much earlier group? That's what we're talking about. In Chicago I saw people lined up before they called group 1, and thought there's no way that many people are in 1. I'm group 3, had to push past all of them to board...

The best of all boarding worlds is when there is a bar within earshot of your gate and it is or will be after 1700 when they board

 

[BugI02]

And the discussion is about one of the things I hate about air travel not having assigned seats and bins thereby eliminating the “cattle calls”. I ponder why? My best guess is the bean counters found the “castle call“ boarding (and even the line jumpers) are faster giving the airline the gate quicker for another flight…

Not quite, there are much fewer perks airlines have available to award their highest status FFs, so 10 different boarding groups makes something out of nothing to give to status pax. In the era of targeted 85% or greater load factors, upgrades are pretty few and far between even if you have the miles/legs/points/whatever so those are out. You might be offered an 'upgrade' to a slightly larger seat, but it will almost certainly be a middle seat, sometimes an exit row middle seat

As far as boarding times, research has shown several times that boarding back to front all window seats then all middles and finally all aisles is fastest but you have to build that method in from the ground up. Southwest has the closest thing to that but not really that close. We call it the 'fall of Saigon boarding method'

They could drastically speed up boarding by just outlawing most carry ons and making checked bags included in the ticket price again, because people standing in the aisle to load the overhead or wandering the aisle to find overhead space really slow things down. There are two reasons that isn't going to happen:

1) Bag fees are a significant source of revenue for most airlines

2) A weight of a carry on bag is considered to be part of the standard passenger weight for weight and balance purposes. That means they only have to count 190 lbs summer/195 lbs winter for you AND your carry on, whereas they would have to count that same 190/195 lbs for you PLUS
23kg for your checked bag and both count against the aircraft's take-off weight restrictions

This legal fiction often results in the aircraft being 4 - 5000 lbs over calculated weight (the crew can ballpark this given the variance between calculated and actual trim settings once in cruise flight), which affects calculation of such things as accelerate-stop distance, runway length required and go/no go speed for engine failure during take-off. Most airline aircraft have a greater than 50% safety factor but some of that is being used just about every take-off

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And the discussion is about one of the things I hate about air travel not having assigned seats and bins thereby eliminating the “cattle calls”. I ponder why? My best guess is the bean counters found the “castle call“ boarding (and even the line jumpers) are faster giving the airline the gate quicker for another flight…

Outside of Southwest, does anyone at all still use open seating?

Even SW is considering going to some version of assigned seating given their current earnings and what airlines make selling upgraded seats.

Bin space, yeah. American Airlines has reserved bins for priority customers, but it's not enforced that I've seen.

My luggage fits my car. We board when we choose and decar at our leisure. Plus I don’t have to deal with karen that couldn’t fit in 2 seats if we folded her in half and her constant complaining that something doesn’t suit her cheap seat ticket that she won in some raffle.

Everything has pros and cons. There's no Buc-ees in the air, for example, which is a definite advantage of road trips over air travel. But, there's also no traffic jams where you're stuck on the interstate for hours because an RV creamed the guardrail and set fire...

I have a soft-sided canvas and leather carry on bag shaped like a loaf of bread, 8 x 10 x 22 I think. It is designed to fit under just about any seat in the industry and my valuables I don't want out of my possession go in it with a change of clothing. I NEVER want to compete for overhead space, it's too annoying and too effed up to access anything in the bag easily. I also have a Targus bag that holds my MacBook, chargers, cords etc and all my reading material and is my personal item

Depending on length of stay, I do check a bag. I used to have status before I retired but that ran out so I got a branded credit card from my favorite carrier that takes care of first bag fees. I usually prefer to connect in a high plains hub like DEN or SLC because by the time 3+ hours have elapsed inside tube one I'm very ready to get up and move around. Non-stop to the west coast for me is 4.5 to 5 hrs and that is longer than I prefer to sit around

Even going to Hawaii, I prefer to overnight in PDX and switch to a very early Hawaiian Air A330 the next morning all rested up

You're correct that a little stoicism goes a long way, but the flip side is I began traveling regularly for business prior to deregulation in the era of limited competition on specific routes. I remember - vividly - how good it was/could be, so the contrast is extra poignant

Vis a vis cruising, we're not fans but did find that when we wanted to see western Italy - Pompeii, Herculaneum, even Milan, renting a car was too byzantine and hotels were too primitive. We found flying in and out of FCO and getting a cruise to W Italy and Greek isles to work best for us. Downside is the cruise organizes the excursions but one had to take a guided tour of Pompeii and Herculaneum in order to go at all so no loss. We left a couple days on the backside to return to Rome and do touristy stuff there. Could just as easily left 5 or 6 and gone to Tuscany instead

2 out of 3 hotels in W Italy seemed to not have A/C, which required more stoicism than I was willing to deploy

Without having any status to leverage or care about, like you I have found some of the best rides to be on national flag carriers

I'm using a Cotopaxi backpack for a bin bag and what I want while seated just goes in my sport coat pockets. I also pack a collapsible Eddie Bauer backpack which I can then use as a 'personal item' if we buy stuff at duty free or whatnot. The only thing I'm still kind of struggling with is cord management/organization with the laptop, cell phone, euro adapter, and watch cable.

Not a bad idea on the HI trip. I don't know we'll go back to HI, I don't know that we won't, but busting up the trip is worth it. I'm trying to figure out a way to bust up a trip to Athens in the winter if we elect to do that in December. Since it's the off season for tourism there are no direct flights. They aren't expensive, they just suck as far as routing. A few days in the UK or Spain may help. I'd like to figure out a way to sneak Venice into the trip, but I don't see any good routings.

We tend to travel in the shoulder seasons. I forget what months we were in Italy, but it wasn't hot enough the lack of AC mattered. I do remember being a bit concerned you had to leave your key with the desk when you left, but then I realized they have access to your room regardless so there's no new security risk from that. That was our first European trip from the US after returning from the ME, so it's been awhile. Side note: I was surprised how many hotels in Portugal are still using real keys instead of key cards. I kind of liked that.

My biggest concern with cruises is I think I'll be bored and I don't like that you take your own crowd with you everywhere you go. We're very active on vacations, if I just want to sit in a chair and drink I can do that pretty easily anywhere. Maybe unfairly, but I see cruises as very similar to casinos. Not really my kind of fun and always looking to get in your pocket besides. I *may* end up trying an Alaska one, but we'll see.

 

[ditcherman]

Outside of Southwest, does anyone at all still use open seating?

Even SW is considering going to some version of assigned seating given their current earnings and what airlines make selling upgraded seats.

Bin space, yeah. American Airlines has reserved bins for priority customers, but it's not enforced that I've seen.



Everything has pros and cons. There's no Buc-ees in the air, for example, which is a definite advantage of road trips over air travel. But, there's also no traffic jams where you're stuck on the interstate for hours because an RV creamed the guardrail and set fire...



I'm using a Cotopaxi backpack for a bin bag and what I want while seated just goes in my sport coat pockets. I also pack a collapsible Eddie Bauer backpack which I can then use as a 'personal item' if we buy stuff at duty free or whatnot. The only thing I'm still kind of struggling with is cord management/organization with the laptop, cell phone, euro adapter, and watch cable.

Not a bad idea on the HI trip. I don't know we'll go back to HI, I don't know that we won't, but busting up the trip is worth it. I'm trying to figure out a way to bust up a trip to Athens in the winter if we elect to do that in December. Since it's the off season for tourism there are no direct flights. They aren't expensive, they just suck as far as routing. A few days in the UK or Spain may help. I'd like to figure out a way to sneak Venice into the trip, but I don't see any good routings.

We tend to travel in the shoulder seasons. I forget what months we were in Italy, but it wasn't hot enough the lack of AC mattered. I do remember being a bit concerned you had to leave your key with the desk when you left, but then I realized they have access to your room regardless so there's no new security risk from that. That was our first European trip from the US after returning from the ME, so it's been awhile. Side note: I was surprised how many hotels in Portugal are still using real keys instead of key cards. I kind of liked that.

My biggest concern with cruises is I think I'll be bored and I don't like that you take your own crowd with you everywhere you go. We're very active on vacations, if I just want to sit in a chair and drink I can do that pretty easily anywhere. Maybe unfairly, but I see cruises as very similar to casinos. Not really my kind of fun and always looking to get in your pocket besides. I *may* end up trying an Alaska one, but we'll see.

I thought the same thing about a cruise but really ended up enjoying it. The one we took was “given” to us, (free seed corn jars (edit: hats) have come a long way), but we would do it again. She’d love to go to Alaska.

 

[Brad69]

Wtf
Try a packed C 130 J on a 10 hour flight from Kuwait to Afghanistan.
Then you imagine you can't take off your body armor or ****.

Then at the end of the flight the pilot says. "OK put your helmets on. It's gonna be a full combat landing. You first timers watch the old guys. Please get off the aircraft as fast as possible once the crew chief tells you"

Then you go into this bunker looking thing. " Welcome to Afghanistan please load you weapons and they stay that way"

By the way every one is gonna die you don't have a choice. I wanna die at 101 with a hangover.

 

[actaeon277]

Wtf
Try a packed C 130 J on a 10 hour flight from Kuwait to Afghanistan.
Then you imagine you can't take off your body armor or ****.

Then at the end of the flight the pilot says. "OK put your helmets on. It's gonna be a full combat landing. You first timers watch the old guys. Please get off the aircraft as fast as possible once the crew chief tells you"

Then you go into this bunker looking thing. " Welcome to Afghanistan please load you weapons and they stay that way"

By the way every one is gonna die you don't have a choice. I wanna die at 101 with a hangover.

I think there's a bit of a difference between military and civilian... anything.

I put up with a LOT of stuff in the military, that I don't want to put up with now.