I just luv gubmint

[Peacekeeper3073]

Years ago when I was dealing with the child support office in Clark County, it was really my first experience dealing with bureaucracy. Literally the dumbest ***ing people I’ve ever met, to this day, I have never experienced the kind of stupidity that that group of mouth breathers displayed.

I’ve always said that anyone who wishes to vote, should be required to spend a half hour in one of their local government offices just observing the “employees”.

Good old Clark County Government. It's all terrible no matter which office or town you deal with. But hey, we have tons of new worthless apartment complexes that look like painted prison buildings !!!!!

 

[smokingman]

We all essentially agree a property tax does not allow for ownership without payment. The question is, just who and how should government services that directly benefit the property be paid for. County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

Who should fund schools is certainly debatable but service directly to or for property should be paid by who how if there is no property tax?

Then why do corporations get exceptions(Lilly's as an example 24 million in 2020 alone)?

A primary residence should be able to be owned tax free. Before 1913 we had no income taxes either(only corporations did).

Cut government waste for a start. Tax property not part of a primary residence,without excepting them for favors.

 

[Magyars]

We all essentially agree a property tax does not allow for ownership without payment. The question is, just who and how should government services that directly benefit the property be paid for. County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

Who should fund schools is certainly debatable but service directly to or for property should be paid by who how if there is no property tax?

Fair questions. What if your on well and septic?
What if your roads continue to get worse?
What if you never use the Fire department services?

 

[indyjohn]

Scott- get on the google and search "quit claim deed". You may find that you can write and submit the documentation yourself to remove you wife (God Rest Her Soul) from the title. I did not use a lawyer to add the OG to my property some years after I purchased it.

 

[Ziggidy]

The police don’t protect.
The schools do not teach.
The libraries distribute porn.
The streets & sanitation both decay.
The government skims, steals, ignore….well, they‘re government.

So much more…..

Where does the money go?

 

[Ingomike]

Not a lot of benefit from most of those out here.

Why are roads being paid for with property taxes? I thought that was why they increased the fuel taxes.

There is a common perception that “roads” are paid for by distributing the gas tax which is true, but incomplete. Property taxes at least partially support county bridges, the county highway department, snow plowing, etc.

 

[Expat]

snow plow knocked down my mail box this past winter, so **** those guys too

 

[Ingomike]

Sounds a whole lot like "from each according to their Ability, to each according to their Needs..."

What formula should be used to determine how much property owners should pay for the community services they receive? Apparently many here have no concept that their property receives services directly related to their property.

For all the talk, all homeowners do get breaks in that they pay a max of 1% on the homestead, renters pay double that (I believe the landlord passes the cost of property taxes on to the tenants), while commercial property pay 3%.

Should your 1/3 acre lot pay the same as a 3 acre lot for services?

 

[Ingomike]

********. I'd be fine if they did a helluva lot less and just left me alone but the communists in office think I ought buy your bennies and everybody else's that won't work. **** that.

So a subscription police & fire department? They only come for those that pay them? (I realize that some FD do charge some fees, but not what it actually costs.). Based on responses here few have any idea what county government does.

 

[phylodog]

What formula should be used to determine how much property owners should pay for the community services they receive? Apparently many here have no concept that their property receives services directly related to their property.

For all the talk, all homeowners do get breaks in that they pay a max of 1% on the homestead, renters pay double that (I believe the landlord passes the cost of property taxes on to the tenants), while commercial property pay 3%.

Should your 1/3 acre lot pay the same as a 3 acre lot for services?

None of that changes the fact that the current approach is ****ed.

I've not argued that I should not bear my fair amount of financial responsibility for the services I receive. Taxing people out of their property is wrong. Figure out a way to fix it. I can promise you that there are scores of older folks facing this exact issue, largely due to the lovely economy.

My pension is fixed, I haven't gotten a raise since I retired five years ago nor will I for another four years so effectively I've taken a $12,000 pay cut compared to 2018 when I retired. My property value has also risen significantly, on paper. In reality, it's worth exactly what I paid for it but my taxes are going up right along with everything else except my income. What the **** am I supposed to do? I use 10% of the "services" I used before I retired yet I'm paying more than ever both in real numbers and as a percentage of my income. So, the result will be I will be taxed out of the home I worked two ****ing jobs for 25+ years to purchase and enjoy for the remainder of my years.

Seems perfectly legit. Especially considering the quality of the "services" I've received. Great ****ing system, keep arguing for how perfect it is, I'm sure you'll find someone here who will agree with you at some point.

 

[phylodog]

So a subscription police & fire department? They only come for those that pay them? (I realize that some FD do charge some fees, but not what it actually costs.). Based on responses here few have any idea what county government does.

My taxes have paid for police and fire services for 40 years. I've taken one ambulance ride and received quite a nice hefty bill for having the audacity to try getting something in return.

 

[phylodog]

What formula should be used to determine how much property owners should pay for the community services they receive?

Property owners aren't the only people taking advantage of community services. Take one apartment complex as an example. A big one in Indianapolis can house thousands of people, none of them pay property taxes. I'd be happy to put my money up against which group utilizes more "services", the apartment dwellers or property owners. Same goes for trailer parks, government housing, etc.. You act as if the system is approaching fair, it isn't.

All services could quite easily be paid for via other means. Indiana has almost double the property taxes of several other states yet they manage.

 

[Ingomike]

Then why do corporations get exceptions(Lilly's as an example 24 million in 2020 alone)?

Those exceptions usually are an incentive elected representatives issued to create jobs. The answer is to elect representatives that don’t give exceptions. Odd isn’t it that many of these topics come back to being active in who runs for elected positions.

A primary residence should be able to be owned tax free. Before 1913 we had no income taxes either(only corporations did).

What does the income tax have to do with property owners paying for community services?

Cut government waste for a start.

For sure!

Tax property not part of a primary residence,without excepting them for favors.

Not sure I get this point.

 

[Ingomike]

Fair questions. What if your on well and septic?

I did not mention sewers, but they are a part of city and town taxes to some degree, but I believe the county drainage system is pretty important for a septic system to work because if the water is not drained many places would have standing water at times that we believe is just dry land naturally.

What if your roads continue to get worse?

Elect better county commissioners for local roads. One thing rarely mentioned about roads is the fact population has doubled in the lives of many on INGO, coupled with affluence to afford vehicles and goods needing transport the demand on roads has exponentially increased they constantly need repairs. I bet the new I69 south will need repair before we know it and maybe already. When the I69 north was built it seemed like it was new forever.

What if you never use the Fire department services?

Most everyone does in Indiana, one of the first things property insurance wants to know is location of FD and or fire hydrant. Then there is the why do you buy, care for, provide ammo for, and carry a gun?

 

[Ingomike]

None of that changes the fact that the current approach is ****ed.

I've not argued that I should not bear my fair amount of financial responsibility for the services I receive. Taxing people out of their property is wrong. Figure out a way to fix it. I can promise you that there are scores of older folks facing this exact issue, largely due to the lovely economy.

My pension is fixed, I haven't gotten a raise since I retired five years ago nor will I for another four years so effectively I've taken a $12,000 pay cut compared to 2018 when I retired. My property value has also risen significantly, on paper. In reality, it's worth exactly what I paid for it but my taxes are going up right along with everything else except my income. What the **** am I supposed to do? I use 10% of the "services" I used before I retired yet I'm paying more than ever both in real numbers and as a percentage of my income. So, the result will be I will be taxed out of the home I worked two ****ing jobs for 25+ years to purchase and enjoy for the remainder of my years.

Seems perfectly legit. Especially considering the quality of the "services" I've received. Great ****ing system, keep arguing for how perfect it is, I'm sure you'll find someone here who will agree with you at some point.

Sorry for you that the system in our state does not work for you. No system is perfect. You chose to move to one of the most popular counties in the entire US, one with two cities that have been ranked number one place to live in the country multiple times and had experienced rapid growth for the past thirty years.

It is quite possible the system will not work for any of us going forward. They are wrecking our country and who knows where it will go.

 

[Ingomike]

Property owners aren't the only people taking advantage of community services. Take one apartment complex as an example. A big one in Indianapolis can house thousands of people, none of them pay property taxes.

This is 100% wrong. The building owners pay 2% taxes and passes that along the tenants. So true, they don’t directly pay a tax bill, but it is a cost of the rent they pay.

I'd be happy to put my money up against which group utilizes more "services", the apartment dwellers or property owners. Same goes for trailer parks, government housing, etc.. You act as if the system is approaching fair, it isn't.

Again all these pay 2%, the owner of the trailer park pays and the trailer owner pay personal property tax too. Government housing is paid for by taxes, but on government subsidized units the owner still pays 2% to my knowledge.

All services could quite easily be paid for via other means. Indiana has almost double the property taxes of several other states yet they manage.

So your kids working a starter job should be taxed to pay for services you receive at your property?

 

[WebSnyper]

What formula should be used to determine how much property owners should pay for the community services they receive? Apparently many here have no concept that their property receives services directly related to their property.

For all the talk, all homeowners do get breaks in that they pay a max of 1% on the homestead, renters pay double that (I believe the landlord passes the cost of property taxes on to the tenants), while commercial property pay 3%.

Should your 1/3 acre lot pay the same as a 3 acre lot for services?

Is the amount of services provided determined by the value of the property? If you own 2 acres but are a single person living there, are you using more than the 1/4 acre with a family of 5 living there?

Taxes based on the value of the holding are not even near equitable division of the cost of services provided.

 

[tim87tr]

It is quite possible the system will not work for any of us going forward. They are wrecking our country and who knows where it will go.

I agree that there could possibly be less "compliance" with the standard systems of governing in the future.

The arguments I've read here revolve around increasing government authority that the governed have consented to versus people who want to be left alone and own their property outright and utilize modern services if necessary at their discretion.

Local, State and Federal oversights are boundless and ingrained into society by a social contract. This is well beyond the initial constitutional intent to provide law enforcement, military and judicial systems. Privatization of services and owning your property without threat of force to take it away related to property taxes, falls into an anarcho-capitalist model.

Modern society doesn't seem to recognize having that much freedom and government would never want to lose that control. IMO ideally one would organize their life to avoid excessive taxation on big items like income and housing. Alternatively will this problem be corrected much at all? I'm not seeing it.

What is anarcho-capitalism?

Both viewpoints of anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism share the goal of limited government, according to Classical Liberal Organization faculty advisor and Chairman of Economics Charles Steele.

hillsdalecollegian.com

 

[phylodog]

Is the amount of services provided determined by the value of the property? If you own 2 acres but are a single person living there, are you using more than the 1/4 acre with a family of 5 living there?

Taxes based on the value of the holding are not even near equitable division of the cost of services provided.

Clearly, they are.

 

[phylodog]

IMO ideally one would organize their life to avoid excessive taxation on big items like income and housing.

How would one go about that? If you want to exist in this country, you must pay taxes. If you cannot continue to produce for the government as long as you draw breath, they will take everything you have. Own nothing and be happy to have such a blessed system apparently.