IC 37-45-2-1; Poll #4

[kludge]

Question #4: (Parallel logic to poll #2) A person is at a friend’s home/private property and is shooting his friend’s legally owned handgun. Is this person considered “carrying a handgun without a license” in the sense of IC 35-47-2-1?

YES /NO

If “NO” which section of the Indiana Code or legal precedent will protect such a person from criminal prosecution?

IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.

For the poll assume that the person in question does not possess a handgun license and is not excepted under IC 35-47-2-2 (1) through (10).


​

 

[bigg cheese]

private property is an exemption in and of itself.

 

[SavageEagle]

No and neither statute holds water. Because you are on private property with permission to shoot the gun it doesn't matter. The guy didn't transport the handgun without a license and is shooting on PP with the permission of the land owner. That's my take on the whole situation. IANAL and IANAC and IDNSAAHILN.

 

[eldirector]

Great polls, kludge!

"Carry" is not defined, from what I can tell, anywhere in the code. A great example of why it all needs to go. It is my right to carry - end of story.

In the strictest sense, someone without an LTCH can only "carry" a handgun in very few scenarios:

• In your dwelling
• At your business
• On your own property
• To or from any of these locations, but only if to or from a place of purchase or repair shop

That's it. No private property exclusions, no range exclusions, etc....

Makes you wonder how the DNR can run a rental counter w/o the need for a LTCH. Maybe there is a legal definition for "carry" that equates to "stick it in a holster/pocket/waistband and walk around".

Now hold on while I go vote....

 

[SavageEagle]

Great polls, kludge!

"Carry" is not defined, from what I can tell, anywhere in the code. A great example of why it all needs to go. It is my right to carry - end of story.

In the strictest sense, someone without an LTCH can only "carry" a handgun in very few scenarios:

• In your dwelling
• At your business
• On your own property
• To or from any of these locations, but only if to or from a place of purchase or repair shop

That's it. No private property exclusions, no range exclusions, etc....

Makes you wonder how the DNR can run a rental counter w/o the need for a LTCH. Maybe there is a legal definition for "carry" that equates to "stick it in a holster/pocket/waistband and walk around".

Now hold on while I go vote....

If I remember correctly there is a provision that lets you shoot at the range but it has to be transported by a LTCH holder. No where in the law does it state you CAN'T handle a handgun on someone else's property or at the range.

 

[Bill of Rights]

In the strictest sense of the law as written, I answered no to the first two polls and yes to the second two. In the first two, the reasonable, prudent person would presume that the person was possibly planning on buying the pistol. As he has not left the premises, poll #1 would be the same as saying that if he's buying a shirt, he may not try it on first; poll #2 would be akin to not allowing the test-driving of a car.

Conversely, at the private home of a friend, more evidence would have to be presented to make that home a place of purchase from which he could lawfully carry it home or to his business or a place of repair. Would a LEO arrest on these grounds? Not likely. Could s/he do so? A case could be made, so yes, the possibility exists.

I do not believe such laws should exist, but that doesn't mean they don't or that they don't have to be followed until they are changed.

Good posts, kludge, thanks

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

If I remember correctly there is a provision that lets you shoot at the range but it has to be transported by a LTCH holder. No where in the law does it state you CAN'T handle a handgun on someone else's property or at the range.

Cite this provision, please. If it's there, I don't remember it, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[IUGradStudent]

I voted no since holding and shooting does not equal carrying.

A harder question would be if the friend put the gun in a holster and walked around the property with the owner.

 

[SavageEagle]

Cite this provision, please. If it's there, I don't remember it, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Blessings,
Bill

I stand corrected. However, Indiana Handgun Law covers this, but I don't have my copy at the moment. It's out on loan. I MAY have the 2005 copy, but I don't know if that would be accurate anymore anyway.

 

[kludge]

private property is an exemption in and of itself.

For the person that lives there, but not for his friend.

 

[kludge]

I voted no since holding and shooting does not equal carrying.

A harder question would be if the friend put the gun in a holster and walked around the property with the owner.

Explain.

"On our about your person" is the letter of the law.

 

[kludge]

If I remember correctly there is a provision that lets you shoot at the range but it has to be transported by a LTCH holder.

Please find the provision if you can. I've been looking for ~five years.

No where in the law does it state you CAN'T handle a handgun on someone else's property or at the range.

Yes it does; it states that unless you have a LTCH or are a special class of person, and your are not at home or at your place of business, or going home or to your place of business from the place of purchase or to a place of repair, you are "carrying without a license" and it's a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I stand corrected. However, Indiana Handgun Law covers this, but I don't have my copy at the moment. It's out on loan. I MAY have the 2005 copy, but I don't know if that would be accurate anymore anyway.

I have my copy. If you can recall where it was covered, I'll be happy to look.

As Kludge said, private property is an exemption, but only for the property owner.

This of course raises another question: What about family of the property owner? That is, if my 21 year old daughter who lives with me wants to carry, she does not own property... The statute says she may carry in her dwelling, on her property, or in her fixed place of business, and of those, she has only the first (dwelling). If she was out on the property rather than in the dwelling, would she technically be in violation?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[SavageEagle]

I have my copy. If you can recall where it was covered, I'll be happy to look.

As Kludge said, private property is an exemption, but only for the property owner.

This of course raises another question: What about family of the property owner? That is, if my 21 year old daughter who lives with me wants to carry, she does not own property... The statute says she may carry in her dwelling, on her property, or in her fixed place of business, and of those, she has only the first (dwelling). If she was out on the property rather than in the dwelling, would she technically be in violation?

Blessings,
Bill

Don't remember where cause I'd skim through it to find it. The Danville Conservation Club used his book in their FAQ and it states under the question of can you shoot at the range without a LTCH: Just get the License. I'm sure it covers it somewhere and that FAQ confirmed it. I'll try to get my copy back and find it.

Technically because she lives there, even though her her name isn't on the mortgage or title, it's still her dwelling and property. It's kinda weird since the law really doesn't define it since she isn't a minor, but because she lives there it's still her home/property. Especially if she can show that she pays you rent of any kind. Paying rent doesn't necessarily mean money though. It can be chores, upkeep, etc. Especially if bills come to the house in her name. If that's enough for the BMV it's enough to cover her on this.

 

[rich8483]

whos the "judge/prosecutor" who voted yes on all four. even #1 when he was at the dealer? what the crap

 

[Indy317]

You can't carry a handgun on any property but your own (or at your business, etc.). I saw a guy get found guilty of this in court on time. What the guy did was carry a handgun to a friend's apartment. He put it in the refrigerator. Cops are called of an odor of marijuana. They found the gun in fridge. They spoke with the kid who was said to have taken the gun to the apartment and either he admitted to it or the other college aged kids in the apartment ratted him out, so the cops say. It was a long time ago, but I think his attorney tried to argue the "carrying" of the gun at the time, etc. etc.. The judge found him guilty, because there was either enough witnesses who testified against him and/or when questioned by the cops he admitted he had been carrying the gun. So he got like a few days to do in jail and since he was a college student and the holidays were coming up, his lawyer got it so he could do this day or two during Christmas time. He ended up being found not guilty for the marijuana because when the bag was submitted as an exhibit, they lab had forgot to test it. Since there was no scientific lab testing done, the defense attorney argued it could be some herbs or something. So the judge gave the kid a pass on the drugs.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

This of course raises another question: What about family of the property owner? That is, if my 21 year old daughter who lives with me wants to carry, she does not own property... The statute says she may carry in her dwelling, on her property, or in her fixed place of business, and of those, she has only the first (dwelling). If she was out on the property rather than in the dwelling, would she technically be in violation?

If you live in the house, I consider it to be your residence even if you aren't the owner. Your property extends to all property lines, so in my not so valuable opinion, as long as you are inside your property lines you are legal (at least that is the way I do business). When you step across the lines to public or another person's property you technically are violating the statute.