ICORE @ Silver Creek Conservation Club June 26, 2016

[RevoWood123]

Alright guys, here’s the plan for the match this month. We have a lot of our regular shooters who might actually make it to a club match this month as they don’t have commitments elsewhere. A few guys haven’t gotten classified yet, so I am running 4 classifiers so that they can get some scores submitted.

Classifiers: CS-009 How Fast Are You?, CS-016 Side to Side, CS-024 Boxes and Barricades, & CS-031 Line Up and Take Sides.

We will also be running two steel challenge stages; Smoke & Hope and Five to Go; as well as three field courses, two of which are X-count and one is Par Time. Total minimum round count is 210 rounds across 9 stages.

As usual, match fees are $15 for non-members, $10 for club members, $5 for LE/MIL/FIRE/EMS. Bring $2 per classifier in addition to match fees if you want to have classifier scores submitted to ICORE.

We could use people to help set up the Saturday before the match as well as tear down after the match. For those willing to help, they shoot the match free, as well as those who are willing to RO. I am bringing out a large cooler with ice and water as it will most likely be hot. If you want to bring additional drinks (Gatorade) and want them to stay cold, there will be room in the cooler, put your name on them.

Match is Sunday morning; last minute set up starts at 8, registration starts at 9 in the clubhouse, and match to start at 10. I look forward to seeing you all out there, if you are willing to help set up/ tear down, email me at icorestu@gmail.com .

 

[RevoWood123]

Just a reminder guys, the match is a week from today. If you are willing/ able to help set up on Sat before, it would be much appreciated and you will get to shoot the match free. If you want to help email me at icorestu@gmail.com , otherwise I look forward to seeing you all on the range Sunday.

 

[m_deaner]

Will be there!

 

[RevoWood123]

Quick change being made to the match. As of this moment I have no idea how many we are expecting at the match, and a lot of guys have been asking to shoot outlaw division, so I made the decision to give Outlaw a try. I don't want semi-autos to have an easy time so I am going to lay out two options and we will decide which way to go at the meeting before the match 9:30 Sunday morning.

Option #1: Any shooter shooting outlaw division will receive an automatic 35 sec penalty added to their scores and will be require to only have 8 rounds in the gun at any time (no 8+1); so start mag with 8 rounds and shoot til empty, or 8 rounds in start mag, keep one in chamber and 7 rounds in remaining mags. The reason for this is to simulate the same amount of ammunition that would be in an 8 shot revolver.

Option #2: Any shooter shooting outlaw division wil receive an automatic 80 sec penalty added to their scores and will follow the same rules as USPSA Production division regarding magazine capacity (10 rounds in the magazines).

I want to encourage those who are shooting Outlaw to see what ICORE is about and maybe win a few folks over the fun of wheelguns.

 

[opus1776]

Hey RevoWood123,

How about option 3:

No additional time penalty, but anyone shooting a bottom feeder can only have six rounds in the mag/gun at any one time. This would put the outlaw folks in the equilavent of the classic division--- the extra time needed for reloads with only six rounds might add some time. When ICORE was run at Atlanta CC, this is what the MD did for the bottom feeders (6 round max)........

My . Something to think about.

















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You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[RevoWood123]

Hey RevoWood123,

How about option 3:

No additional time penalty, but anyone shooting a bottom feeder can only have six rounds in the mag/gun at any one time. This would put the outlaw folks in the equilavent of the classic division--- the extra time needed for reloads with only six rounds might add some time. When ICORE was run at Atlanta CC, this is what the MD did for the bottom feeders (6 round max)........

My . Something to think about.

I appreciate your input and I may leave that option on the table for discussion sunday.

I was thinking in terms of fairness towards both crowds. Most of your pistol shooters are probably shooting production and would like the same rules for simplicity, but I want the scores to come out reasonable, I think the penalty is fair for that option considering the fewer number of reloads. The first option put the gun more on the level with a limited gun which is usually the greater number of shooters at the matches (I am combining Limited and Limited-6 for the count). I didn't want to make it feel like the classic shooters were the target for this experiment because there are fewer of them, and that division typically produces the slowest times (expected), so I didn't want Classic shooters to be targeted for more compeition (if that makes sense).

 

[m_deaner]

Would it be possible to just score the semi shooters separately so they are just competing against each other? Seems like no penalty would be needed that way. Just a suggestion... I will be shooting a revolver anyway.

 

[RevoWood123]

They technically are only competing against each other just as the separate revolver divisions are only competing amongst their fellow shooters in said division. The reason for the penatly is the mental aspect of the game, when shooters see faster times coming out (even though they aren't shooting in the same division) the perception is that they are not shooting as well as others.

Whichever way we decide to go Sunday doesn't bother me, I am not committed to the penalty, and the scores will all be posted after the match (probably one with the outlaw division and one without, posted both ways).

 

[Seancass]

I would vote for the six rounds, no penalty option, if it was available. It's not about comparing them to Classic, it's about forcing them to make shots COUNT. ICORE is accuracy heavy, whereas USPSA is speed heavy. Since most stages include six-shot arrays, it forces them to be precise. The extremely low round count needs to be on their brains! ICORE is fun for different reasons versus USPSA and I think this option highlights those reasons.

I'm PLANNING to attend, but I'll be driving down from Lafayette! Yowza I make poor decisions...

 

[Bosshoss]

There is nothing you can do to make Auto vs Revolver a level playing field.
Not going to happen.
Giving shooters a penalty when they sign up and before first shot fired is a sure way to make sure they don't come back.
Just score them in outlaw and let them have fun.
As for the mental aspect of shooters seeing faster times and feeling they are not shooting well this would be a problem now wouldn't it?
Classic shooters getting beat by limited shooters and limited shooters getting beat by open shooters.
USPSA has all the different divisions shooting the same stages at a match and scored separate and that seems to work.
As for limiting rounds in a magazine keep in mind that some shooters don't have as many mags and holders as we have moonclips and speedloaders. If you limit the mags to 6 or 8 rounds then some of the bigger field courses or all steel stages some will need 6+ mags to finish. 2011 shooters may only have 4 mags.

Creative stage designs can eliminate some of the Auto's advantage but it will never be a "level playing field"

Let them shoot and if it is a problem then go back to revolver only.
More shooters means more money for the club and more help running the match and more help tearing down

It is going to be brutal hot this Sunday might want to make sure you have water at every stage. I know the club has coolers they use for USPSA.

 

[RevoWood123]

There is nothing you can do to make Auto vs Revolver a level playing field.
Not going to happen.
Giving shooters a penalty when they sign up and before first shot fired is a sure way to make sure they don't come back.
Just score them in outlaw and let them have fun.
As for the mental aspect of shooters seeing faster times and feeling they are not shooting well this would be a problem now wouldn't it?
Classic shooters getting beat by limited shooters and limited shooters getting beat by open shooters.
USPSA has all the different divisions shooting the same stages at a match and scored separate and that seems to work.
As for limiting rounds in a magazine keep in mind that some shooters don't have as many mags and holders as we have moonclips and speedloaders. If you limit the mags to 6 or 8 rounds then some of the bigger field courses or all steel stages some will need 6+ mags to finish. 2011 shooters may only have 4 mags.

Creative stage designs can eliminate some of the Auto's advantage but it will never be a "level playing field"

Let them shoot and if it is a problem then go back to revolver only.
More shooters means more money for the club and more help running the match and more help tearing down

It is going to be brutal hot this Sunday might want to make sure you have water at every stage. I know the club has coolers they use for USPSA.

Good points. The idea is to get them to experience ICORE and to learn about the sport, they shouldn't be penalized for showing interest, I agree. We'll talk about the loadings at the meeting on Sunday so everybody is on the same page, and I will drop the penalty.

Plan is to have water coolers out on the stages as well as a large cooler with bottled water under the covered picnic table area. If people want to put other things in there (snacks/ gatorade) there should be plenty of space.

 

[Seancass]

I'll be bringing a spare Classic rig if anyone wants to borrow it. It's completely untested, I'll find out today if it works at all. And depending on how today goes, i have no idea how much ammo I'll have for it!

If anybody wants it, call dibs and go buy a box or two of 38!

'Course, maybe I'll like it more than my Limited rig...!

 

[RevoWood123]

Here's the scores for this month's match. Thanks to all who came out to help set up the day before the match, it was much appreciated and thanks to all the guys who came out to shoot outlaw and see what ICORE is about. I hope that you all had fun and hopefully we may have generated a little more interest for revolver. I think I'll continue to allow outlaw division so long as it doesn't end up being mostly semi-auto shooters.

http://silvercreekcc.org/files/2016/06/ICORE-SCORES-6_26_16.pdf

 

[RevoWood123]

[FONT=&quot]I also need to issue an apology to M. Shaw as I looked at the scores again today, I must have missed it on the sort, but you should have been at the top of the list for Limited Division.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]Also I wanted to add, that I have the classifiers pulled out of the packets and I am going to get a check to send the classifiers in to ICORE as soon as possible so that the classifications will hopefully be posted in July.[/FONT]

 

[Latewatch]

Thanks for putting in the hard work to make the match happen.