Ideal National Match .45 Ammo Recommendations

[huntsville]

I have an awesome Colt National Match .45 from around 1970 that was assembled by Government Armorers. Most parts have "NM" on them and others have "SA". I inherited the pistol from my dad which I only fired a few times when I was a little nerd (which means it was a loooong time ago). These were the pistols that were used at Camp Perry back in the day. Dad and my grandpa always held this pistol in high regard.

I'm looking to gain info from the knowledge base here on INGO (which I consider to be extensive) and hoping to hear from people who have knowledge and experience with National Match pistols.

Dad always said not to shoot "the heavy stuff" in it. I presume that to mean 185gr at target velocities (850 fps). Thing is I understand 230 is standard for most plinking and target .45 loads. I have re-loaded a lot of reliable and accurate 230gr FMJ at 850 fps.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you guys.

 

[Bigtanker]

Maybe be thought the "heavy stuff" would wear the gun out faster?

Churchmouse will be by shortly to gjve the facts.

 

[huntsville]

These pistols are finely tuned machines with their parts custom fit to each other. The spring more than likely has a lighter strength than stock 45s - not suitable for defense rounds.

 

[ScouT6a]

Huntsville, is correct. Those pistols were purpose built for target shooting and competition. They were not meant for full power self defense loads or +P loads. IIRC, a stock 1911 recoil spring is around 18 pounds. Your pistol may only have a 13 - 15 pound spring in it. It would be mechanically safe to shoot a heavier load but the recoil would be stout and it would beat up the frame over time.
I would not have any concerns shooting 230 grain FMJ or lead, as long as you keep the velocity down. If you have any concerns at all, have a good 1911 gunsmith check the recoil spring and up it by a couple of pounds, if yours is on the low side. (They compress over time with shooting and should be replaced anyway) If it were mine, I would install a shock buffer under the spring, as well. With this and a new spring, you are looking at less than $12 -15.
Have fun and enjoy shooting a great pistol that your dad passed down.

 

[huntsville]

Thanks ScouT6a. The gun hasn't been shot much but with the age of the pistol, the recoil spring in particular I think I'll try some of my good target rounds I reloaded and see how that goes. I will probably go with your recommendation as well and get a new 13-15lb spring and maybe a shock buffer as well.

So standard target loads at 850fps should be okay no matter the weight of the bullet is what I'm hearing.

 

[huntsville]

Upon further investigation about this pistol it's frame is a 1944 military pistol. Still looking to see when the slide, barrel and other match parts were manufactured. I am somewhat confused as some information shows it would be from the early 60s and other indications make me think it was from just after WWII. It's one with the matte finish. Most all others have shiny blued finishes or SS.

 

[Twangbanger]

Thanks ScouT6a. The gun hasn't been shot much but with the age of the pistol, the recoil spring in particular I think I'll try some of my good target rounds I reloaded and see how that goes. I will probably go with your recommendation as well and get a new 13-15lb spring and maybe a shock buffer as well.

So standard target loads at 850fps should be okay no matter the weight of the bullet is what I'm hearing.

No, 850 fps. with 230 gr. is hardball power factor (17/18# spring territory). Some guns are setup for softball ammo, hardball target guns will be sprung a little tighter. Doesn't matter, just decide what you want to shoot and choose the spring accordingly. Something like 200gr. bullets in the 700-750 fps. range usually cycle well with a 15# spring, maybe a little lighter. If you can, load some up and enjoy the gun the way it was meant to be. Either way, assume the spring needs replaced in any old gun like that. They're only 8 bucks or so. Most people shooting these guns have a light and heavy spring in marked baggies in their shooting bag, ready to adapt to whatever ammo is on hand.

 

[BigMoose]

Use THIS ammo. 230 grain FMJ BALL. M1911 MATCH

The ONLY Government issue 1911s, were all built in WWII.

However, they often made replacement parts for those WWII guns.

When they built a NM gun, they took a standard M1911A1 and stripped them to the frame. The frame then had match parts fitted to them. The match armorers do this for ANY match gun built. M1, M14 or M16 alike. The frame MIGHT NOT EVEN BE A COLT. Get the SN and check it against web data. All parts for these guns were reused without care for brand or date. The NM armorer reached over into the bin and grabbed whatever was on top.

SA stands for SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. Not the commerical one in ILL, but the goverment entity in Mass. They made USGI replacement parts for most small arms.

 

[huntsville]

Any recommendations where to get good factory match ammo?

 

[BigMoose]

For plunking and general use with the original springs. I would just get whatever 230 grain FMJs are on the shelf. Most of it especially the PMC is light loaded. PMC is usually less then 790FPS with 230FMJs

Now if you want to change the recoil sping (save the old one), you can run current match ammo. 230 grain 860FPS

I would probably just shoot PMC unless your actually going to shoot a match.

Unless you get aftermarket mags, the other stuff (185s and 200s) and hollow points will probably jam. USGI mag followers are a little shorter and don't guide the bullet as well.

 

[BE Mike]

How about a photo? If this is a pistol that has adjustable rear sights and a separate (no rib) front sight, then it was built for CMP (formerly) DCM hardball matches. They are commonly referred to as leg or excellence in competition (EIC) matches. These are matches where a shooter firing in the top 10% can get points towards the Distinguished Pistol Shooter's Badge. As long as it has a 16# recoil spring or greater, you can use any kind of factory 230 gr. FMJ ammo in the pistol.

 

[huntsville]

According to Colt's database the frame is from 1944. I don't see many like this one at all around. This one has the dull parkerized finish, not the shiny blued finish. Most are Gold Cups. This mainspring housing has been replaced with a flat one but I do have the original one.

 

[huntsville]

There's a great post on the 1911 forum about this model. I'd post it if I was sure I wasn't breaking a rule.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Post a link.
About the only rule is posting © material. But a link is perfectly acceptable.

 

[BigMoose]

You have a Remington Rand made in 1944 with a replacement NM Colt frame.

Remington Rand: S/N 1,890,504 to 2,075,103 = 1944

Colt 1911 .45 ACP Production Statistics and Serial Numbers

All in all nice gun.

 

[huntsville]

Here's the forum post about this model.
1911Forum - View Single Post - A Photo Essay of the National Match .45 1911s

 

[huntsville]

You have a Remington Rand made in 1944 with a replacement NM Colt frame.

Remington Rand: S/N 1,890,504 to 2,075,103 = 1944

Colt 1911 .45 ACP Production Statistics and Serial Numbers

All in all nice gun.

Yeah, according to Colt Colt Firearm Serial Number Lookup - Year of Manufacture all it says is "1944 MODEL 1911 MILITARY"

 

[BigMoose]

Colt handed out serial # blocks to the other three WII wartime expedient companies to make M1911A1s

Remington Rand (nothing to do with the Remington gun maker) They made typewriters.
Ithaca (another gun maker)
Union Switch and Signal (Railway signal equipment and electronics)

Here is another SN list.

http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/colt production.htm
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/colt production.htm

If it had been a Union Switch and Signal you would have a gun worth well more then a colt.

 

[BE Mike]

Nice family heirloom. These pistols could be borrowed at Camp Perry to fire in the DCM matches. IIRC, prior to 1968 the competitor could purchase the pistol after using it in the matches. They are nice old guns. I don't know if they have any collector value, but they are great shooters and still meet the CMP rules. If I owned it, I'd go through the pistol and make sure everything functions properly and the springs are still good and then I'd keep it and shoot it. That's what it was built for.

 

[halfmileharry]

No, 850 fps. with 230 gr. is hardball power factor (17/18# spring territory). Some guns are setup for softball ammo, hardball target guns will be sprung a little tighter. Doesn't matter, just decide what you want to shoot and choose the spring accordingly. Something like 200gr. bullets in the 700-750 fps. range usually cycle well with a 15# spring, maybe a little lighter. If you can, load some up and enjoy the gun the way it was meant to be. Either way, assume the spring needs replaced in any old gun like that. They're only 8 bucks or so. Most people shooting these guns have a light and heavy spring in marked baggies in their shooting bag, ready to adapt to whatever ammo is on hand.

18# spring to start. IF the loads won't cycle the guy you can start trying lighter springs. I am using an 18Lb spring with 200 gr ball and it cycles perfect. I shoot 230 as well with the same spring.
I had to drop down to a 16# spring for 185 light loaded