im for more gun laws

[kingpin1779]

well mayby just one law that criminals will obay.

 

[Mosinguy]

What?

 

[IndyDave1776]

well mayby just one law that criminals will obay.

The law of physics which dictates that they drop dead when properly shot?

 

[Raskolnikov]

well mayby just one law that criminals will obay.

Do you care to elaborate?

 

[Smokepole]

Want a Common Sense Gun Law ??

If you want a gun law that has been shown to work, try the NRA backed Project Exile. It makes the use of a gun in a crime a separate felony with a term of five years. Any paroled felon that is caught with a gun (even if no other crime has been committed) goes back to the pokey for 5 years too.

It CANNOT be plead down, away or not filed. It MUST be prosecuted, and if guilty the offender MUST serve a straight 5 years that is NOT negotiable no matter what is done with any other charges that are filed. There is no credit for time served or good behavior. And the other charges cannot be scaled back any differently than they would have been before Project Exile to credit the 5 years. It is a straight 5 years that is separate from any other charges and MUST be served. Period. It was implemented successfully in Virginia. Not sure about other states. but the NRA was pushing it pretty hard a few years ago.

Project Exile has my vote and support for a COMMON SENSE gun law.

I think that there should be another similar law for convicted gang activity. On top of the Project Exile gun law. That would be 10 years for gang crimes that are committed with a gun that cannot be negotiated down or away. Want to get the criminals off the street? There you are. That would be one he!! of a beginning. And it makes sense too.

 

[Smokepole]

well mayby just one law that criminals will obay.

Oh, by the way, criminals by definition do not obey laws. If they did they wouldn't be criminals now would they.

 

[gunner69]

I think he was making a joke

 

[jb1911]

I think he was making a joke

That would explain the spelling.

 

[evsnova74]

The only solution is to once and for all pass a law making it illegal to break the law. Why has no one else thought of this?

 

[Glockowner]

If you want a gun law that has been shown to work, try the NRA backed Project Exile. It makes the use of a gun in a crime a separate felony with a term of five years. Any paroled felon that is caught with a gun (even if no other crime has been committed) goes back to the pokey for 5 years too.

It CANNOT be plead down, away or not filed. It MUST be prosecuted, and if guilty the offender MUST serve a straight 5 years that is NOT negotiable no matter what is done with any other charges that are filed. There is no credit for time served or good behavior. And the other charges cannot be scaled back any differently than they would have been before Project Exile to credit the 5 years. It is a straight 5 years that is separate from any other charges and MUST be served. Period. It was implemented successfully in Virginia. Not sure about other states. but the NRA was pushing it pretty hard a few years ago.

Project Exile has my vote and support for a COMMON SENSE gun law.

I think that there should be another similar law for convicted gang activity. On top of the Project Exile gun law. That would be 10 years for gang crimes that are committed with a gun that cannot be negotiated down or away. Want to get the criminals off the street? There you are. That would be one he!! of a beginning. And it makes sense too.

Sounds great, but it will not work. They knew they were comitting a crime and facing a jail sentence the first time. Think their first jail term inspired them to be more or less law abiding?

Research has shown that increasing penalties increases costs more than it reduces recidivism (rate at which they re-offend).

 

[LarryC]

Sounds great, but it will not work. They knew they were comitting a crime and facing a jail sentence the first time. Think their first jail term inspired them to be more or less law abiding?

Research has shown that increasing penalties increases costs more than it reduces recidivism (rate at which they re-offend).

Yes, but the price paid is fairly cheap to keep repeat offenders off the streets for an extended length of time. And I do believe increasing penalties does work. Kidnapping surely dropped after the Lindbergh law was passed. I also believe the death penalty helps prevent murder. Recidivism is only one measurement, how many decided not to do the criminal act in the first place due to the penalties? I grant you, most criminals tend to repeat offend - but isn't a better goal preventing a criminal action in the first place? Think about what would happen if the penalties for Bank Robbery were reduced to a misdemeanor? I would immediately pull all my money from the banks and hide in under my mattress!

 

[Glockowner]

Well made point. Penalties do prevent some from committing crimes, but not the seriously violent offenders who we are concerned about here. For many reasons that population does not do a good job of calculating risk vs reward like law abiding citizens do. Consider the third strike legislation, completely unsuccessful unless the goal was to bankrupt the States' DOC.

Increasing penalties works to a point. Using your example of bank robbers. Increasing the crime from a misedemeanor to a felony does decrease those who are willing to risk getting caught. However, increasing it to a capital offense wouldn't deter many more people. Those who were concerned about consequences were deterred by the significant jail time and felony conviction.

Do you follow the law to avoid penalties? I am generally within the bounds of the law not because I fear getting caught, but because I follow my own moral compass. I would suggest that is the same for most of us. Criminal penalties make a poor substitution to guide an individual with a flawed or nonexistent moral compass.

I don't think the death penalty is much of an increased deterrent over life without parole, but I still support it. Most murderers would not commit the offense if they knew they would get caught, except that percentage that are so motivated that they accept the consequences as a cost.





Btw prison runs between. 50-80k per year.

 

[churchmouse]

The law of physics which dictates that they drop dead when properly shot?

Even if grazed.....

 

[Shift]

If you want a gun law that has been shown to work, try the NRA backed Project Exile. It makes the use of a gun in a crime a separate felony with a term of five years. Any paroled felon that is caught with a gun (even if no other crime has been committed) goes back to the pokey for 5 years too.

It CANNOT be plead down, away or not filed. It MUST be prosecuted, and if guilty the offender MUST serve a straight 5 years that is NOT negotiable no matter what is done with any other charges that are filed. There is no credit for time served or good behavior. And the other charges cannot be scaled back any differently than they would have been before Project Exile to credit the 5 years. It is a straight 5 years that is separate from any other charges and MUST be served. Period. It was implemented successfully in Virginia. Not sure about other states. but the NRA was pushing it pretty hard a few years ago.

Project Exile has my vote and support for a COMMON SENSE gun law.

I think that there should be another similar law for convicted gang activity. On top of the Project Exile gun law. That would be 10 years for gang crimes that are committed with a gun that cannot be negotiated down or away. Want to get the criminals off the street? There you are. That would be one he!! of a beginning. And it makes sense too.

I strongly disagree with this. Once somebody has paid their debt to society, all of their rights should be restored.

That being said, America is very soft on crime. Violent offenders need to be put away for much longer.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Well made point. Penalties do prevent some from committing crimes, but not the seriously violent offenders who we are concerned about here. For many reasons that population does not do a good job of calculating risk vs reward like law abiding citizens do. Consider the third strike legislation, completely unsuccessful unless the goal was to bankrupt the States' DOC.

Increasing penalties works to a point. Using your example of bank robbers. Increasing the crime from a misedemeanor to a felony does decrease those who are willing to risk getting caught. However, increasing it to a capital offense wouldn't deter many more people. Those who were concerned about consequences were deterred by the significant jail time and felony conviction.

Do you follow the law to avoid penalties? I am generally within the bounds of the law not because I fear getting caught, but because I follow my own moral compass. I would suggest that is the same for most of us. Criminal penalties make a poor substitution to guide an individual with a flawed or nonexistent moral compass.

I don't think the death penalty is much of an increased deterrent over life without parole, but I still support it. Most murderers would not commit the offense if they knew they would get caught, except that percentage that are so motivated that they accept the consequences as a cost.





Btw prison runs between. 50-80k per year.

Criminologists look at deterring crime with punishment in three ways: The severity of punishment, the certainty of punishment, and the celerity of punishment.The certainty of punishment, far and away, is the best way to deter crime. Most of the gun laws on the books are not even enforced. Every time a prohibited person fails a NICS background check, he has committed a criminal offense. I can't remember the exact statistic on prosecution, but I know that at the very least, 70% of these cases are not prosecuted. The vast majority of the time, felons caught with firearms are not prosecuted federally. If prosecutors increased the certainty of punishment in these cases, it would deter more people from committing these crimes (but of course, it wouldn't stop all of them).

It kills me that legislative and executive branches of government are talking about more control when the current law (which are already tough) are not being enforced.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Every time a prohibited person fails a NICS background check, he has committed a criminal offense.

Even if it's a 'non intentional' fail ??

I was convicted 17 years ago for a crime. My sentence was xxx and to be recorded as a misdemeanor. Last year when I tried to purchase a gun, I failed the NICS background check. To my knowledge, I WAS a proper person. I was very surprised that I failed. Immediately, I filed an appeal.

To my astonishment, the court system recorded my conviction as a felony. I immediately had my record corrected to show the misdemeanor as it was on the court records. I subsequently sent the appropriate paperwork to the FBI and applied for a UPIN.

By your account (which I don't disagree with) I committed a crime because 'the system' showed me as a proper person, when in fact, I was not. Should I have been cuffed and stuff just for attempting to purchase a gun and being unaware that the system had failed ?

ETA: I now have my LTCH and have since purchased several guns with no delays or denials. I have however, made the connection that my incorrect criminal record may have cost me several really good job opportunities in the past.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm for one more gun law. One that repeals the NFA and gun control acts of 1934 and 1986; add to that the repeal of whatever laws are in place that require me to have to have a LTCH to legally carry a gun; the law that makes it illegal for me to carry a gun on school property; carry on federal property...probably others, but that's what comes to mind right away.

 

[mikefraz]

I love threads where the OP makes the thread and then never responds for the rest of it. It's like he finalizes his post, hits the post button and then shuts his computer off for a few days.

 

[jb1911]

He should have shut his computer down for a few days before he hit the post button.

 

[Iroquois]

As far as making the use of a firearm a separate offense, Illinois tried that. Illinois Supreme Court three it out stating that a crime with a gun is not more heinous than the same crime with another weapon.
Or something like that...
As far as repeat offenders, a single sentence of 10 years is cheaper than 2 3 years sentences when you add in the cost of a second trial, which can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Keeping some folks in jail is cheaper than releasing them, and lowers the number of crimes they can commit...