In California silence can be used against you too

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  • draketungsten

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    Anyone one catch this?

    Court: Silence Can Be Used Against Suspects - ABC News

    The California Supreme Court has ruled that the silence of suspects can be used against them.
    Wading into a legally tangled vehicular manslaughter case, a sharply divided high court on Thursday effectively reinstated the felony conviction of a man accused in a 2007 San Francisco Bay Area crash that left an 8-year-old girl dead and her sister and mother injured.
    Richard Tom was sentenced to seven years in prison for manslaughter after authorities said he was speeding and slammed into another vehicle at a Redwood City intersection.
    Prosecutors repeatedly told jurors during the trial that Tom's failure to ask about the victims immediately after the crash but before police read him his so-called Miranda rights showed his guilt.
    Legal analysts said the ruling could affect future cases, allowing prosecutors to exploit a suspect's refusal to talk before invoking 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination.
    "It's a bad and questionable decision," said Dennis Fischer, a longtime criminal appellate lawyer.
    Tom's attorney Marc Zilversmit said he is deciding whether to petition the U.S. Supreme Court to take up the issue or renew his arguments in the state court of appeal.
    "It's a very dangerous ruling," Zilversmit said. "If you say anything to the police, that can be used against you. Now, if you don't say anything before you are warned of your rights, that too can be used against you."
    The state Supreme Court in a 4-3 ruling said Tom needed to explicitly assert his right to remain silent — before he was read his Miranda rights — for the silence to be inadmissible in court.
    Tom has been freed on $300,000 bail pending his appeal.
    Tom was arrested after his Mercedes sedan plowed into a car driven by Lorraine Wong, who was turning left onto a busy street.
    Prosecutors argue that Tom's car was speeding at 67 mph in a 35 mph zone when the collision occurred. He was placed in the back of a police cruiser but was not officially arrested and advised of his rights until later in the day.
    Prosecutors said Tom's failure to ask about the Wong family while detained showed his guilt.
    Justice Goodwin Liu dissented.
    "The court today holds, against common sense expectations, that remaining silent after being placed under arrest is not enough to exercise one's right to remain silent," Liu wrote.
    The ACLU filed a friend of the court brief supporting Tom's appeal.
    Fischer and others say the ruling might not be the last word on the issue.
    The high court ordered the court of appeal to reconsider the case, meaning it could return to the California Supreme Court.
    The high court is undergoing a dramatic transition and it's possible that two new justices would reconsider the ruling.
    Baxter, a Republican appointee and reliable conservative vote on the court, is retiring in January.
    Meanwhile, Gov. Jerry Brown recently nominated Stanford University law professor Mariano-Florentino Cuéllar to fill a vacancy.
    "This could be the last hurrah for a conservative Supreme Court," appellate lawyer Jon Eisenberg said.
     

    jamil

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    Why didn't going 67 mph in a 35 mph zone demonstrate his guilt? So if he'd inquired about the Wong family would that have made him any less guilty? I think this doesn't make sense.
     

    ModernGunner

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    Well, that won't go anywhere. The 5th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution specifically states (in part), "...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

    By citing that ones silence can be used as evidence of guilt, the allegation is then inferred that silence is 'compelling one to be a witness against himself'.

    California is a lefty-loon State. So such a ruling isn't really 'surprising'.
     

    mrjarrell

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    Has nothing to do with Cali's courts and everything to do with SCOTUS' rulings, is what it looks like. The supreme's have already ruled that silence can be indicative of guilt and can be held against you.

    The Price of Silence: Supreme Court Rules That Pre-Miranda Silence Can Be Used Against Defendant To Prove Guilt | JONATHAN TURLEY

    Do You Have A Right to Remain Silent? Thoughts on the "Sleeper" Criminal Procedure Case of the Term, Salinas v. Texas | The Volokh ConspiracyThe Volokh Conspiracy

    Lay this at the feet of the supreme's for setting the precedent.
     

    ryknoll3

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    Has nothing to do with Cali's courts and everything to do with SCOTUS' rulings, is what it looks like. The supreme's have already ruled that silence can be indicative of guilt and can be held against you.

    The Price of Silence: Supreme Court Rules That Pre-Miranda Silence Can Be Used Against Defendant To Prove Guilt | JONATHAN TURLEY

    Do You Have A Right to Remain Silent? Thoughts on the "Sleeper" Criminal Procedure Case of the Term, Salinas v. Texas | The Volokh ConspiracyThe Volokh Conspiracy

    Lay this at the feet of the supreme's for setting the precedent.

    In the Salinas case, your first linked article says that the suspect answered questions, until it got the incriminating ones, and then he clammed up. This seems different to me that flat-out refusing to answer any questions.

    The case that this thread is about seems worse though. Because you don't make SPECIFIC inquiries while in police custody, that shows you're guilty?
     

    ryknoll3

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    Also, in light of this ruling, couldn't you extend it to someone's refusal to "come down to the station to answer questions" a tacit admission of guilt? After all, who wouldn't want to help the cops catch the bad guy and clear their name?
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Drake, it is called a tacit admission.

    Can you explain this 'tacit admission' for us? It sounds to me like something along the lines that if you don't say the right things while balancing on one foot touching your nose with your left index finger, you can be presumed to have admitted guilt by not denying it according to the proper byzantine method which most likely varies between states.
     

    Twangbanger

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    In my uneducated redneck view, I don't see how you can gain more Constitutional rights after a person reads something off a card to you, than you had just the moment before he read it. Are they saying your rights under the Constitution change simply by virtue of someone notifying you of them?

    You legal eagles gonna have to 'splain this to me. ( In "Ice Road Trucker" terms...none of that fancy lawyer bullsh!t).
     
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    poptab

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    It doesn't make any sense because they just make up the rules as they go along.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Every justice who voted for this was nominated by a Republican.

    A Democrat wrote the dissent, promoting the 5th amendment.

    Paradigm implosion in 3....2.....1....

    I am uncertain what is meant here. The Right has long been critical of Miranda.

    As soon as Miranda came out, Republicans (and Democrats) introduced legislation to overturn it. Congress included §3501 to the 1968 SSA to exempt federal law enforcement from Miranda (overruled about 15 years ago in Dickerson).

    Intellectuals on the Right have long expressed a desire to abolish Miranda. The notion that Miranda is somehow sacred is incorrect.

    Can you explain this 'tacit admission' for us? It sounds to me like something along the lines that if you don't say the right things while balancing on one foot touching your nose with your left index finger, you can be presumed to have admitted guilt by not denying it according to the proper byzantine method which most likely varies between states.

    Ok, if you want.

    A tacit admission is silence in response to a charge or assertion which one expects a denial.

    E.g. "you coached the witness" + silence in response=tacit admission to the assertion of witness coaching.

    E.g., there is a Indiana Supreme Court case from 30 years ago where a co-defendant high fived another defendant in response to "man, you beat that guy up good" or something like that. The defendant smiled and grinned and high fived his confederate. That was admitted as a tacit admission. Think the case was Wicker or Wickland. I'll go look for it.
     
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    jamil

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    In my uneducated redneck view, I don't see how you can gain more Constitutional rights after a person reads something off a card to you, than you had just the moment before he read it. Are they saying your rights under the Constitution change simply by virtue of someone notifying you of them?

    You legal eagles gonna have to 'splain this to me. ( In "Ice Road Trucker" terms...none of that fancy lawyer bullsh!t).

    You also miraculously gain more constitutional rights by exclaiming you have them. Just having them isn't enough it seems.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    The case wasn't about repealing Miranda.​

    The case is all about Miranda. The dissent writes that Miranda should be expanded to include tacit admissions. The majority thinks that it should not as no compulsion took place.

    Those associated with the Republican Party have long been hostile to Miranda since it was decided. The notion that there is something new here is incorrect.

    Here is the decision so INGO does not to go digging for it: http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/S202107.PDF
     
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