In the business without an FFL? Online auctions...

[cobber]

I have been perusing Gunbroker ads, and am puzzled at how many large volume sellers are not FFLs (or at least don't sell as FFLs, but as private sellers).

Some of these folks have hundreds of transactions in their feedback.

While they may not rely on dealing for their primary means of support, this would still seem to constitute being in the business?

Some of them are clearly businesses in general (not solely dealing in firearms).

I'm puzzled. Not that I want the feds to take notice (like they haven't already, if it's not legit)...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I may be mistaken, but as long as they're not making a profit (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), then they can sell as many guns as they want.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Good question. Tagging for the responses.

 

[cobber]

I may be mistaken, but as long as they're not making a profit (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), then they can sell as many guns as they want.

I'm not calling for Shannon Whatshername to join arms with Erich von Holder and Mikey B. on this.

And clearly when THEY talk about internet sales, that isn't what they mean.

 

[Booya]

I have been perusing Gunbroker ads, and am puzzled at how many large volume sellers are not FFLs (or at least don't sell as FFLs, but as private sellers).

Some of these folks have hundreds of transactions in their feedback.

While they may not rely on dealing for their primary means of support, this would still seem to constitute being in the business?

Some of them are clearly businesses in general (not solely dealing in firearms).

I'm puzzled. Not that I want the feds to take notice (like they haven't already, if it's not legit)...

How do you know these people don't have FFL's based on how they ship... Or something else? There are lots of people out there with kitchen table FFL "business's". Just curious.

 

[Birds Away]

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what other people are doing. I guess I am out of the norm. I tend to mind my own business and let others look after theirs.

 

[cobber]

How do you know these people don't have FFL's based on how they ship... Or something else? There are lots of people out there with kitchen table FFL "business's". Just curious.

If you have used GB, FFLs display an icon on their auction page. I suppose an FFL doesn't have to register with GB as an FFL. All the 'unmarked' auctions I have gone through have been private sellers, though most with only a handful of transactions.

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what other people are doing. I guess I am out of the norm. I tend to mind my own business and let others look after theirs.

Not worrying about it. But just wondering at what point a "business" might not be business. And whether I really want to conduct business with someone who is apparently doing it for profit, but is not licensed.

 

[Libertarian01]

To Cobber (et alia),

More than likely some of them are in violation of the law and get away with it for two (2) reasons:

#1) It is a numbers game. Hundreds do it and the odds of getting caught are very small;
#2) It is a time/reward problem for ATFE agents to go after. They know it is being done but it would take too much of a time investment to get a single conviction.

Something people forget - IF it is not making a lot of money (or even losing money) it can still be a business; or, even if it makes a lot of money doesn't mean it IS a business.

In example number one say a retiree decides to make some money on the side buying and selling guns. He is not a good businessman and doesn't keep track of his expenses. He thinks he is making $500 a month in profit buying and selling guns on the side when in reality he is losing $100 a month. He is still operating as a business, just a poorly run one.

In example number two say dad dies and leaves his huge collection of firearms to his only son. The son isn't into firearms at all and decides to sell dads collection of 555 firearms. The son is fairly well off and doesn't want to give an FFL or an auctioneer a cut so he decides to take his time and sell the guns on INGO and other websites in order to get the most money. He is going to make tens of thousands of dollars but clearly isn't operating as a business, he is only liquidating a one time inheritance.

Here is the ATFE's definition of a business: https://www.atf.gov/content/what-does-engaged-business-mean

While I would like to see the law changed and simply allow anyone to buy and sell firearms that isn't the way it is now. There are lots of good and decent people who have jumped through many legal hoops in order to obtain their FFL and operate legitimately. It is unfair to them to have others undermining their business by operating illegally. This creates unfair competition. However, that is just my opinion. That is why I will shed not a tear if several of these guys online (or who show up every time there is a gunshow with new firearms) were nailed by the ATFE.

Regards,

Doug

 

[STEEL CORE]

But they all SHIP only to an FFL................find me one that ships a firearm straight to you.

 

[cobber]

But they all SHIP only to an FFL................find me one that ships a firearm straight to you.

Indeed, with the exception of C&R.

 

[Tactically Fat]

But they all SHIP only to an FFL................find me one that ships a firearm straight to you.

Intra-state long-gun purchases CAN be done this way... Will probably be rare to find that on GB and the like....and even more rare to find both a buyer and seller knowledgeable enough to know that little nuance, but it MAY happen.

 

[Dosproduction]

Wait u can buy a long gun across state lines with no ffl?

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Intra-state long-gun purchases CAN be done this way... Will probably be rare to find that on GB and the like....and even more rare to find both a buyer and seller knowledgeable enough to know that little nuance, but it MAY happen.

Wait u can buy a long gun across state lines with no ffl?

 

[Tactically Fat]

Wait u can buy a long gun across state lines with no ffl?

Uhhh... no. Not legally. Where was that mentioned?

Intra = occurring within a state.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You have to pay for that FFL badge, also the verified badge. Many folks don't see the need.

 

[cobber]

You have to pay for that FFL badge, also the verified badge. Many folks don't see the need.

Aha, thanks. I was digging around trying to find that information in their FAQs.

 

[gundoc111]

Anyone remember Jim Rogers? He was a BIG S&W seller on G-broker, and gun shows. He got paid a visit by the ATF telling him he was selling WAY to many guns and stop immediately. He had seen prison movies so he decided to take their advice.

 

[gundoc111]

Uhhh... no. Not legally. Where was that mentioned?

Intra = occurring within a state.

If they are contiguous States yes you can, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Ky.

 

[patience0830]

If they are contiguous States yes you can, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Ky.

Please be complete and correct in your answers that can send people to jail. You can buy long guns and carry them home from an ffl out of state. Contiguous or not. You CANNOT legally purchase a long gun from an individual and carry it home from out of state. Must be transferred through an ffl at one end or the other.
Handguns are different and must be shipped to your local ffl for pick up.

 

[JettaKnight]

If they are contiguous States yes you can, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Ky.

You're new, so I won't hit you with the negative rep for disseminating bad information.

But, as Kirk is so fond of saying, "State lines = FFL". There's no way around that.