-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Indiana Gunbroker Seller
- Thread starter 1775usmarine
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
I live somewhat close to Copper Custom and happen to know several people that have done business with MAC. I've never heard anything positive. While I don't pay much attention to his Youtube channel, I do follow him on Instagram for some reason and he spends an inordinate amount of time arguing with people like a five year old.
What's the old saying about arguing on the internet...
Sad. And for what, to line your pockets in the short term. Very myopic I would say.
Sad. And for what, to line your pockets in the short term. Very myopic I would say.
The best and only deal I got from Copper was a hand picked by me S&W 4006tsw w/3 mags for $363 before prices started jumping on those in 2019. A guy I worked with on the railroad ended up working for them after he quit and saw him at the Valpo show with them and he hooked me up.
Otherwise prices on what they had were higher than elsewhere.
Otherwise prices on what they had were higher than elsewhere.
There is a lot of raw meme material to mine out of the article. Thank you for postingCool, more hypocrisy from Tim. making videos whining about censorship while he sits there behind a computer screen deleting critical comments, banning followers, and also banning folks from his business. Pathetic.
Also, Hungarian media has picked up this saga: https://www.portfolio.hu/short/2021...Mn4tzu3viI4_I6pshtUrKc76A-lqQzpL3Sks5tgBSQtIM
Wait for Tim's new YT video coming soon...
Lushamania
Marksman
I’m here to jump on the Copper Custom Hate Train. Their prices are stupidly high. $20 for 100 .22lr CCI mini mags. $1,100 for a 1,000 round case of Federal 9mm. A full-size Beretta 92x, as the factory made it, $1,000.
I went there yesterday, looked around for a few, saw they increased the price of their .22lr CCI mini mag ammo to the aforementioned $20 from $18 the week before.
I walked out swearing I’ll never step foot inside there again. Even when things calm down, they can copper-colored **** up a rope.
I went there yesterday, looked around for a few, saw they increased the price of their .22lr CCI mini mag ammo to the aforementioned $20 from $18 the week before.
I walked out swearing I’ll never step foot inside there again. Even when things calm down, they can copper-colored **** up a rope.
Cool, more hypocrisy from Tim. making videos whining about censorship while he sits there behind a computer screen deleting critical comments, banning followers, and also banning folks from his business. Pathetic.
Also, Hungarian media has picked up this saga: https://www.portfolio.hu/short/2021...Mn4tzu3viI4_I6pshtUrKc76A-lqQzpL3Sks5tgBSQtIM
Wait for Tim's new YT video coming soon...
Copper Customs? It's like visiting a exotic car dealership, you know you are not going home with one but it is nice to look for 15mins while the wife is down the street at bath and body works. Oh, and don't ever have them appraise anything of yours unless you want to be pi$$ed about something other than the path our country is headed down for a few days.
sheepdog697
Expert
Okay i was never a fan of Copper customs. Lets get that out of the way. Now in terms of the "social media banning" LOL who cares. Its "magdump"...
It wasn't a social media ban. He banned him from the store.
sheepdog697
Expert
If I owned a store and someone was starting **** with me why would I let them in the store? If I was fighting with someone I wouldn’t let them in my house. Is MY business any different? I guess I don’t understand. I’m not into the cancel culture BS. “Magpoop” or whatever his name is and Copper Customs have some drama. Big deal. Copper customs is scalping, ....what’s new? Don’t shop there. I’ve never bought firearms from there for that exact reason. What Are we a bunch of cheerleaders?
Put on a pot of coffee. Here is Dave Blythe's statement:
We know there is a lot of angry and upset customers regarding our rollout of the FEG HD-18 rifles. We know there is a lot of stories and conflicting information that has been circulating in forums and on social media about how these rifles came to be available here in the US. We want to let people know our backstory on this project and how it differs from the online narrative being told.
First, about our relationship with Trident LLC. Trident LLC is an importer that we have been working with for several years now and have used to import many desired and rare firearms. We continue to have a good relationship with Trident LLC and have many current import projects in the works. A few years ago, we requested Trident to keep an eye out globally for possibilities for AK rifle production or part kit sourcing. In this search, Trident contacted FEG to inquire on whether they had anything to offer in this realm. At this time, FEG was restructuring and did not have anything immediately available but presented us with options for future projects using the existing parts they had in their inventory while they tooled up for new production. One of these projects was the HD-18 rifle which we were interested in. FEG stated they had up to 100 rifles worth of parts that could be built but hoped to start new parts production for consistent import but could not give an exact time or date for this to happen.
Trident immediately started the process to gain ATF import approval and we began discussions with FEG on pricing and what their goals were for the US market. Initial pricing from FEG on rifles was higher than expected (would hit the market at $8000 MSRP). We advised them that this pricing was acceptable as a limited 100 gun import but would not be a sustainable price for constant import at which we suggested they needed to retail around $3500. Pricing discussions continued even after ATF approval was received as we didn’t know if we were prepping the market for a one-off limited import or consistent import availability. Finally, Trident and Copper Custom agreed to buy the original 100 guns after negotiating to a slightly lower price, which would allow for a $7500 MSRP, as the fear of import shutdown by the new administration as well as still not having any confirmed timeframe or reduced pricing for new production imports was a concern.
This is how these 49 guns came to be here in the US and in our possession. The remaining 50 have yet to leave FEG. The narrative online is that we swooped in and stole these from some other entity, either stealing the import away or Copper Custom swooping in and buying all the inventory up from Trident to inflate the market. None of this is true. Trident LLC handled the importation from the start including financing the purchase of the rifles and the long and difficult process of submitting a sample to the ATF for approval. We were the retailer of these guns from the beginning of discussions about the project from FEG. We hope as much as anybody that new part mass production of these rifles comes to fruition and with that a price that is palatable to a larger portion of the public. We will do our best to keep the public informed of any progress in this direction.
Now to address what we know and what we did know about the forum posts made by the person with the username PRDUBI. Early on in initial conversations with FEG a list was mentioned that was a gauge of interest in these rifles. The list was a sales tool they presented to confirm there was market justification to pursue the project and importation. We all know that any SVD variant has huge demand here in the US and we assured them of that fact. They mentioned it in passing and it never was brought up or discussed further. There was never any mention of a group buy, buyers list, or any obligation attachment to it whatsoever. Again, this was a quick mention well over 1.5 years ago and never brought up or discussed again by anyone.
Also, PRDUBI did not assist Trident in any capacity with the import of these rifles and had no contact with Trident during this process. It was brought to our attention just before rifles were due to arrive by a member of the forum that found out we were to be the retailer that PRDUBI and the members of this forum were still expecting priority on these guns as well as pricing that was told to them by PRDUBI that had no basis in reality and was not sanctioned, approved or supported by FEG. Moreover, PRDUBI never attempted to contact us as the retailer to make us aware of this situation or even request that we try to accommodate the members of this forum in any way. There has never been any relationship between Copper Custom and PRDUBI of any kind.
Let me be clear, there was no attempt whatsoever, to this point, to contact or inform us of the expectations of this forum, prices that were put forth, or purchasing promises that were made to the forum. As of the time of this post, Copper Custom has still had no direct contact, or attempted contact, from PRDUBI.
Knowing more information at the last minute as these rifles were arriving at Copper Custom, we had to try to decide how to roll these out with as little backlash as possible. We had decided the best way to go about it is to start five initial Gunbroker listings starting at $5000 well under MSRP and a loss price to Copper Custom with the knowledge and anticipation that they would probably go at close to MSRP. We were planning on evaluating sales methods after the completion of these auctions to either pivot to MSRP pricing or lower if the market value was proven lower by the auctions.
The original website listing said all 100 guns would be listed on Gunbroker which was a miscommunication on my part to the web team and was never the intention for the sales of the entire quantity of guns.
Posting 5 guns to GunBroker was a grave mistake and, in our attempt to be as fair as possible, had the appearance of trying to take advantage of buyers and for this we apologize. It is never our intention to take advantage of customers or to price gouge.
We have been attempting to work with Gunbroker to end the auctions due to the fake bids, but Gunbroker continues to remove the fake bids but maintain the auctions. We cannot cancel the auctions, but they are essentially null and void and we will continue to work to have them removed.
Our reputation before this incident speaks for itself and we ask you to give us the benefit of the doubt that we did not have malicious intent with the pricing or availability of these rifles. Also, still to this date we have never been sent a list whatsoever. We are unsure if a formal list exists with usable contact info for buyers to even facilitate sales. We would happily try to work with accommodating this list with future imports if it could be provided with the necessary means of contact but so far, we have nothing to work with.
Tim's (Military Arms Channel) involvement with Copper Custom, albeit he has ownership stake, is involved in the media side and is not directly involved in many of the discussions and details behind these import projects and is briefed at a high level only. He had no knowledge of anything regarding the forum or lists until after the guns were already at Copper Custom and only had the knowledge that FEG had said that none of that was sanctioned or supported by them at the time the video was filmed on the rifle. Also, over the last 72 hours, as we have been dealing with the backlash, Tim has been trying to catch up on the details of the deal as well as the retail rollout at the shop but has taken a brunt of the hate from the public. This personal backlash is undeserved and unwarranted. He is receiving 90% of the negative impact of this with no major direct role in the process and minimal knowledge of the specific details of the project. The botched sales rollout falls on my shoulders as the owner that oversees the import projects and day to day shop processes and for this, I take full responsibility and apologize for the poorly planned and executed release.
This false information and fraudulent narrative have caused harassment, threats, and sabotages in the form of online threats, fraudulent reviews, trolling phone calls and even videotaped in store confrontations have been constant since Monday morning. Our staff has done a great job at handling this with as much grace and tact as possible considering how they have been treated. They bare no responsibility for any of this situation and we urge everyone to treat them respectfully. We have worked extremely hard over the last seven years to build this company’s reputation as one of the best and most respected outlets for firearm retail and customer service. Military Arms Channel has also been one of the staunchest 2A voices in the community for over a decade and many times leading the charge online against all things anti 2A. We would ask everyone who has accepted these as truth to reevaluate the entire situation. We are happy to accept responsibility on our failures in this situation and hope others involved will be brave enough to do the same. We understand everyone's anger regarding this situation but hope to fight to earn back your support along with righting any wrongs that we can along the way.
We understand everyone has waited a long time for a statement from any party involved. The process of communication with FEG has been slow due to time differences as well as information having to work its way through the chain of companies due to Copper Custom not having any direct contract with FEG. FEG has been promising a statement from their agent but we have yet to see it posted publicly anywhere to our knowledge. We hope that the content of this statement will reflect the facts of what happened and assist us in disproving much of the misinformation currently online. We believe FEG to be a great firearms manufacturer as the HD-18 is truly of exceptional quality. We cannot wait to see what else that they produce and make available to the US market.
David Blythe
Copper Custom Armament
Owner
We know there is a lot of angry and upset customers regarding our rollout of the FEG HD-18 rifles. We know there is a lot of stories and conflicting information that has been circulating in forums and on social media about how these rifles came to be available here in the US. We want to let people know our backstory on this project and how it differs from the online narrative being told.
First, about our relationship with Trident LLC. Trident LLC is an importer that we have been working with for several years now and have used to import many desired and rare firearms. We continue to have a good relationship with Trident LLC and have many current import projects in the works. A few years ago, we requested Trident to keep an eye out globally for possibilities for AK rifle production or part kit sourcing. In this search, Trident contacted FEG to inquire on whether they had anything to offer in this realm. At this time, FEG was restructuring and did not have anything immediately available but presented us with options for future projects using the existing parts they had in their inventory while they tooled up for new production. One of these projects was the HD-18 rifle which we were interested in. FEG stated they had up to 100 rifles worth of parts that could be built but hoped to start new parts production for consistent import but could not give an exact time or date for this to happen.
Trident immediately started the process to gain ATF import approval and we began discussions with FEG on pricing and what their goals were for the US market. Initial pricing from FEG on rifles was higher than expected (would hit the market at $8000 MSRP). We advised them that this pricing was acceptable as a limited 100 gun import but would not be a sustainable price for constant import at which we suggested they needed to retail around $3500. Pricing discussions continued even after ATF approval was received as we didn’t know if we were prepping the market for a one-off limited import or consistent import availability. Finally, Trident and Copper Custom agreed to buy the original 100 guns after negotiating to a slightly lower price, which would allow for a $7500 MSRP, as the fear of import shutdown by the new administration as well as still not having any confirmed timeframe or reduced pricing for new production imports was a concern.
This is how these 49 guns came to be here in the US and in our possession. The remaining 50 have yet to leave FEG. The narrative online is that we swooped in and stole these from some other entity, either stealing the import away or Copper Custom swooping in and buying all the inventory up from Trident to inflate the market. None of this is true. Trident LLC handled the importation from the start including financing the purchase of the rifles and the long and difficult process of submitting a sample to the ATF for approval. We were the retailer of these guns from the beginning of discussions about the project from FEG. We hope as much as anybody that new part mass production of these rifles comes to fruition and with that a price that is palatable to a larger portion of the public. We will do our best to keep the public informed of any progress in this direction.
Now to address what we know and what we did know about the forum posts made by the person with the username PRDUBI. Early on in initial conversations with FEG a list was mentioned that was a gauge of interest in these rifles. The list was a sales tool they presented to confirm there was market justification to pursue the project and importation. We all know that any SVD variant has huge demand here in the US and we assured them of that fact. They mentioned it in passing and it never was brought up or discussed further. There was never any mention of a group buy, buyers list, or any obligation attachment to it whatsoever. Again, this was a quick mention well over 1.5 years ago and never brought up or discussed again by anyone.
Also, PRDUBI did not assist Trident in any capacity with the import of these rifles and had no contact with Trident during this process. It was brought to our attention just before rifles were due to arrive by a member of the forum that found out we were to be the retailer that PRDUBI and the members of this forum were still expecting priority on these guns as well as pricing that was told to them by PRDUBI that had no basis in reality and was not sanctioned, approved or supported by FEG. Moreover, PRDUBI never attempted to contact us as the retailer to make us aware of this situation or even request that we try to accommodate the members of this forum in any way. There has never been any relationship between Copper Custom and PRDUBI of any kind.
Let me be clear, there was no attempt whatsoever, to this point, to contact or inform us of the expectations of this forum, prices that were put forth, or purchasing promises that were made to the forum. As of the time of this post, Copper Custom has still had no direct contact, or attempted contact, from PRDUBI.
Knowing more information at the last minute as these rifles were arriving at Copper Custom, we had to try to decide how to roll these out with as little backlash as possible. We had decided the best way to go about it is to start five initial Gunbroker listings starting at $5000 well under MSRP and a loss price to Copper Custom with the knowledge and anticipation that they would probably go at close to MSRP. We were planning on evaluating sales methods after the completion of these auctions to either pivot to MSRP pricing or lower if the market value was proven lower by the auctions.
The original website listing said all 100 guns would be listed on Gunbroker which was a miscommunication on my part to the web team and was never the intention for the sales of the entire quantity of guns.
Posting 5 guns to GunBroker was a grave mistake and, in our attempt to be as fair as possible, had the appearance of trying to take advantage of buyers and for this we apologize. It is never our intention to take advantage of customers or to price gouge.
We have been attempting to work with Gunbroker to end the auctions due to the fake bids, but Gunbroker continues to remove the fake bids but maintain the auctions. We cannot cancel the auctions, but they are essentially null and void and we will continue to work to have them removed.
Our reputation before this incident speaks for itself and we ask you to give us the benefit of the doubt that we did not have malicious intent with the pricing or availability of these rifles. Also, still to this date we have never been sent a list whatsoever. We are unsure if a formal list exists with usable contact info for buyers to even facilitate sales. We would happily try to work with accommodating this list with future imports if it could be provided with the necessary means of contact but so far, we have nothing to work with.
Tim's (Military Arms Channel) involvement with Copper Custom, albeit he has ownership stake, is involved in the media side and is not directly involved in many of the discussions and details behind these import projects and is briefed at a high level only. He had no knowledge of anything regarding the forum or lists until after the guns were already at Copper Custom and only had the knowledge that FEG had said that none of that was sanctioned or supported by them at the time the video was filmed on the rifle. Also, over the last 72 hours, as we have been dealing with the backlash, Tim has been trying to catch up on the details of the deal as well as the retail rollout at the shop but has taken a brunt of the hate from the public. This personal backlash is undeserved and unwarranted. He is receiving 90% of the negative impact of this with no major direct role in the process and minimal knowledge of the specific details of the project. The botched sales rollout falls on my shoulders as the owner that oversees the import projects and day to day shop processes and for this, I take full responsibility and apologize for the poorly planned and executed release.
This false information and fraudulent narrative have caused harassment, threats, and sabotages in the form of online threats, fraudulent reviews, trolling phone calls and even videotaped in store confrontations have been constant since Monday morning. Our staff has done a great job at handling this with as much grace and tact as possible considering how they have been treated. They bare no responsibility for any of this situation and we urge everyone to treat them respectfully. We have worked extremely hard over the last seven years to build this company’s reputation as one of the best and most respected outlets for firearm retail and customer service. Military Arms Channel has also been one of the staunchest 2A voices in the community for over a decade and many times leading the charge online against all things anti 2A. We would ask everyone who has accepted these as truth to reevaluate the entire situation. We are happy to accept responsibility on our failures in this situation and hope others involved will be brave enough to do the same. We understand everyone's anger regarding this situation but hope to fight to earn back your support along with righting any wrongs that we can along the way.
We understand everyone has waited a long time for a statement from any party involved. The process of communication with FEG has been slow due to time differences as well as information having to work its way through the chain of companies due to Copper Custom not having any direct contract with FEG. FEG has been promising a statement from their agent but we have yet to see it posted publicly anywhere to our knowledge. We hope that the content of this statement will reflect the facts of what happened and assist us in disproving much of the misinformation currently online. We believe FEG to be a great firearms manufacturer as the HD-18 is truly of exceptional quality. We cannot wait to see what else that they produce and make available to the US market.
David Blythe
Copper Custom Armament
Owner
Super convenient
I don't really give a ****. I can't afford this stuff anyway so it really does'nt affect me. I'm not in the market for one nor do I have any interest in doing business with CC and whomever is responsible for day to day operations.
If I was and felt there were some sketchy things going on then I would care more about it and act accordingly.
If I was and felt there were some sketchy things going on then I would care more about it and act accordingly.
Lushamania
Marksman
I don’t have social media, but my friend had texted me this earlier tonight, from David’s Facebook page (or one of affiliation).
First off, David, use the KISS methodology, please. Second, the snippet I quoted truly sealed the deal on just how full of crap he is.
I will happily continue living my life never entering Copper Custom again.
^ copper custom trying to save face
^Hungarian media with access to feg
The forum saga played out very differently. Feg was turning down importers who were going to charge more than 5k. Maybe trident went in guns blazing and paid feg more money than others to get a fast deal so they passed that cost onto cu? Doubtful ...
I understand the work that goes into setting up these deals and that casually discussed list that feg mentioned and cu customs ignored was a lot of people that did a lot more than put their names on a board. A lot of leg work got done for Tim and crew to profiteer.
And did Tim not tell them about his anti scalping video he posted condemning exactly what his company did with this release? Minimal backlash release riiiight, these guys are trying to bury themselves.
"Tim didn't know" now they are just trying to save their influencer. Too late, he made himself a pariah for acting out like he did. If it were my war room, cut ties with mac, work with the forum that did the legwork to at least get the guys rifles at cost that paved your golden road, apologize for and own the situation. Simple. This excuse game and trying to protect the colonel will get you nowhere.
So even after all is said and done any legit bidders on GB will not recieve a rifle. That's the way I read this.
Site Supporter
Staff online
-
texkevAdministrator
Members online
- gdog243
- TheGrumpyGuy
- joe138
- Peacekeeper3073
- ZurokSlayer7X9
- 421Jms
- Chalky
- bub74
- mondoreli
- Farmerjon
- WebSnyper
- Timjoebillybob
- Brad69
- 2013Godje
- Whip_McCord
- Longhair
- billmyn
- DoggyDaddy
- led4thehed2
- wsleigh
- Virch
- OneBadV8
- billybob44
- Alamo
- printcraft
- Super Bee
- efd1295
- BAgun
- daddyusmaximus
- BeDome
- Seedogg
- RJW
- Lee9
- el_barto3
- spencer rifle
- johnb62
- scottrodgers87
- patience0830
- texkev
- pokersamurai
- slims2002
- Reale1741
- wildcatfan
- Ingomike
- phylodog
- sp3worker
- bloodandgutsmurphy
- wtburnette
- Leo
- kylekelly9115
