Indiana's proposed law for curriculum oversight

[JettaKnight]

Eh, I don't think other INGOers are part of a nefarious agenda. I will say that I think some are being duped by misinformation/propaganda by those who might have such.

Take as an example a member on here posting that teachers could be sued because of this bill. Not true. Or your statement that "The main objection I have is the part about blocking any teaching that could make a student feel bad about their race, nationality, religion, etc. That's an open invitation for bogus lawsuits claiming Gretchen was offended when the teacher spoke bad about Germany in the 40's." which is also not true as I pointed out and quoted the section of the bill you were referring to.

May I ask where you got your opinion of that section from? Was it from reading the bill, or being told that is what it said?

ETA There is a section that contains the same language as the section you cited. Section 17 Chapter 1.5 starting on the bottom of pg 24 of the bill. But it's the same, just because little Johnny/Janie is upset isn't reason to sue. And there are several hoops to jump through before it gets to that point. First they have to file a complaint with the principal who has so long to respond, then the superintendent, then the school board, then the state department of education. After all that if they aren't satisfied with the response they can then file suit.

I did read the bills. I really hate being told what to think when it comes to legislation.

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in education, no good will come of it.

 

[BigRed]

I did read the bills. I really hate being told what to think when it comes to legislation.

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in education, no good will come of it.

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in anything, no good will come of it.

I submit, same of state.

 

[BigRed]

Isn’t it interesting most of us are for reform and giving parents control, which they should have, but teachers and their families and friends are dead set against it…

Secession.
Long overdue.

 

[wtburnette]

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in education, no good will come of it.

Our educational system is already horrid, due to politicians. These politicians are trying to fix it. While I disagree with politicians a lot and prefer a small, limited government, the situation we're in has to be fixed. You may be fine with overt racism being taught to children, but thankfully most of us are against such a thing. The goal of destroying our nation's values should be stopped and it won't get done without politicians, unfortunately.

 

[maxipum]

I did read the bills. I really hate being told what to think when it comes to legislation.

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in education, no good will come of it.

Also Marxist don’t forget those jokers. Everything they touch turns to poop, but you know that........ Right ?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I did read the bills. I really hate being told what to think when it comes to legislation.

It's a good rule of thumb that when politicians get involved in education, no good will come of it.

On this forum you come across as a reasonably intelligent man, if you read the bill how did you get what you posted from what the bill states? I see two options, either you are no where near as intelligent as I think, or you are posting willful misinformation. If you have another option please share.

You also haven't explained why teachers would be against an advisory board that has no real power, is picked by the school board, and that they wouldn't have to interact with if they didn't wish to.

There is another poster here who argued that being able to sue the district (after repeated mandatory steps) is exactly the same as being able to sue the teachers because OMG they might be interviewed over it. After stating that this bill would allow parent to sue the teachers.

And while I can't disagree with your second sentence, politicians have been involved in education dang near from the start of public education here in the states. If you have a solution to getting them out of public or private for that matter ed, I'm more than willing to listen.

 

[JettaKnight]

On this forum you come across as a reasonably intelligent man,

Thanks, I think.

if you read the bill how did you get what you posted from what the bill states? I see two options, either you are no where near as intelligent as I think, or you are posting willful misinformation. If you have another option please share.

Now I don't think I should thank you.


Let's try option 3: We see things differently.

I just don't like the open-ended "it's made to make you feel guilty". Who gets to decide whether the curriculum was intended to make a child feel bad?

In terms of CRT it all makes sense, but there's plenty of things that we'd like taught that could be construed as meaning to make a child feel bad... or at least it's enough to tie up a court of law trying to prove it.


Just because legislation was pushed by "my guy" and promotes values I also hold, doesn't mean it's good legislation. I can agree with it in principle but not in practice.

You also haven't explained why teachers would be against an advisory board that has no real power, is picked by the school board, and that they wouldn't have to interact with if they didn't wish to.

Because it's more BS onerous laws made by people in power who have no idea how things actually work.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Let's try option 3: We see things differently.

I just don't like the open-ended "it's made to make you feel guilty". Who gets to decide whether the curriculum was intended to make a child feel bad?

That's fair. It's also different that what you stated earlier.

In terms of CRT it all makes sense, but there's plenty of things that we'd like taught that could be construed as meaning to make a child feel bad... or at least it's enough to tie up a court of law trying to prove it.

Sure it can tie up courts, after multiple steps. First the principal, then superintendent, then school board, then the IN dept of ed. After that they can sue.

Just because legislation was pushed by "my guy" and promotes values I also hold, doesn't mean it's good legislation. I can agree with it in principle but not in practice.

I can agree with this.

Because it's more BS onerous laws made by people in power who have no idea how things actually work.

This is different than what you stated earlier as well. This board is already optional by law, it just makes it mandatory. What makes this board onerous for the teachers?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

More BS.

Indiana educators ‘Pack the House’ to protest school curriculum bill

Hoosier educators joined the Indiana State Teachers Association for its “Pack the House” event to highlight issues within the education system, including several proposals.

fox59.com

“Whether it’s being able to sue individual teachers or be able to direct their curriculum, the whole bill is really nothing but an assault on teachers,” said Tim Gavin, a retired educator. “The entire bill should be scrapped, and they ought to sit down and talk with teachers and teacher professionals if they think there’s a need to kind of direct where a curriculum goes.”

Teachers can't be sued because of this bill if it passes. Nor can parents (other than the school board if they are parents) direct their curriculum, which they can and do under the current law.

Oh yeah, great idea. Sit down and talk with the people who are against transparency.

 

[Dentoro]

I know why this is happening. However as written it totally sucks, it will drive out all good teachers.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I know why this is happening. However as written it totally sucks, it will drive out all good teachers.

Please point out what in this bill will drive out all the good teachers.

 

[maxipum]

I know why this is happening. However as written it totally sucks, it will drive out all good teachers.

This is about transparency and accountability all good school systems need both. Nobody likes being under a microscope and I’m sure some teachers don’t like it just like I’m sure police officers initially opposed body cameras. I wonder how all the teachers and their union would feel if cops no longer had to wear body cams? Would they be willing to take the officers word for it? Kinda like when teachers say “we are not teaching CRT” while at the same time firing an award winning administrator for telling that they do actually teach it just not how you think. Sorry not willing to take the teachers at their word since they have already been caught.

 

[Cavman]

Good and bad in everything. Teachers definitely should have transparency. My son whos in 5th grade told us his teacher took off a day this week to go protest at the state capital. I asked what she was protesting, she had told them a bill that wouldn't allow her to help kids who didn't understand or go back and explain things. This was the bill... http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2022/bills/house/1134#digest-heading i sure didn't see anything in there that said that

 

[wtburnette]

Hearing about teachers who would have a problem with accountability makes me want this bill even more.

 

[Cavman]

Hearing about teachers who would have a problem with accountability makes me want this bill even more.

Same here. Trying to decide how I wanna go about dealing with my sons teacher. Especially since she doesn't wanna tell the kids what the bill is really for.

 

[wtburnette]

Same here. Trying to decide how I wanna go about dealing with my sons teacher. Especially since she doesn't wanna tell the kids what the bill is really for.

She's either purposefully misrepresenting the bill, or she's not smart enough to understand the bill. Either way it's an issue.

 

[Shadow01]

Same here. Trying to decide how I wanna go about dealing with my sons teacher. Especially since she doesn't wanna tell the kids what the bill is really for.

Meet with the principal and request that she admit that she didn’t give accurate information to your child or that she intentionally lied.

I would tell the principal that my child may record future classes on a voice recorder. Not really with the intent to do it, but see if it forced them to “shake down” my child so I would have another reason to go after them.

 

[Cavman]

Sounds like route gonna go. I wanna ask the teacher what she exactly told the class first. The principal isn't exactly my biggest fan after my other son was pulled out of the class by the school resource officer and him after he was reported for talking about "glocks"

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Good and bad in everything. Teachers definitely should have transparency. My son whos in 5th grade told us his teacher took off a day this week to go protest at the state capital. I asked what she was protesting, she had told them a bill that wouldn't allow her to help kids who didn't understand or go back and explain things. This was the bill... http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2022/bills/house/1134#digest-heading i sure didn't see anything in there that said that

She's either purposefully misrepresenting the bill, or she's not smart enough to understand the bill. Either way it's an issue.

There is one thing in this bill that can be close to what the teacher stated, but it doesn't have to do with education. It's for mental health counseling. It's the one thing I can understand some teachers concern with. I've known some teachers who have had to deal with emotional issues stemming from an abusive (but not reportable abuse) on more than one occasion with the same student. I can also understand wanting to have the consent because of crap like this.

Another Florida School Board Sued over Concealing Gender Identity Counseling from Parents

The Clay County School Board is being sued by parents that allege school officials hid their 12-year-old daughter’s mental health and gender identity issues for months – only informing them after the child attempted suicide in the school bathroom on two separate occasions. Clay County is located...

tallahasseereports.com

They didn't notify the parents after the first suicide attempt in school, they only notified them after the student attempted it again on separate days at school.


Here is the pertinent part. Pg 34-35 of the bill, 35-36 of the PDF.
Sec. 6. The provisions of this chapter are severable as provided in IC 1-1-1-8(b).
SECTION 21. IC 20-34-3-27 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW SECTION TO READ AS FOLLOWS
[EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2022]: Sec. 27. (a) This section does not apply
to transitional services as described in 34 CFR 300.320(b) that are
part of a student's individual education program.
(b) A licensed psychologist or school psychologist at a qualified
school (as defined in IC 20-30-17-4) or an employee of the qualified
school may not:
(1) provide a student with ongoing or recurring consultation,
collaboration, or intervention services for mental,
social-emotional, or psychological health issues; or
(2) refer a student to community resources for mental,
social-emotional, or pyschological health services,
without obtaining prior written consent in the manner described
in subsection (c) from the student's parent, or the student, if the
student is emancipated.

(cut out the consent requirements)
(g) This section may not be construed to require qualified school
(as defined in IC 20-30-17-4) to obtain parental consent to identify
a potential health issue of a student or to provide an emergency
response in a crisis situation in which an intervention or rapid
response service is needed to evaluate or stabilize an immediate,
medical, behavioral, or mental health condition, or without which,
the student is in immediate danger of experiencing abuse or
neglect.

 

[wtburnette]

Not seeing a problem after reading the article and your post.