Individual shipping to an FFL issue.

[CZB1962]

I just bought a XDs 45 off Gunbroker and needed an FFL to ship it to. I have used J&S in Evansville when I buy from Whittakers but thought I would try one in Newburgh who is just down the road from me.

Turns out he would not do a transfer from an individual, only from another FFL. He acted like I may have a hard time finding someone who would but I called Jim and he said it was no problem.

First I want to say that Jim is great and I will just stick with him from now on. He is a bit further away, but worth it if I don't have issues.

Has anyone else ran across an FFL who won't take a transfer from an individual? Is this common?

 

[Alpo]

Yep. It is up to the FFL. It is not a law, but it won't do any good to argue with the FFL. They can either accept transfers and add conditions, or not.

 

[warthog]

FFL's can do what they want as long as they follow the law. They aren't breaking it by not doing a transfer from an individual so they don't have to do it. Many FFL's these days will not do transfers from a nonRRL holder, mostly because they don't think it is legal. It does no good to even take them an FFL book, the one they get from the BATFE, and show them either. Like people who ask what s legal on the internet, they now the law no matter what you do and you just have to deal with it.

 

[citizenkane]

Yes I've had that same problem. I need to find another FFL in Indy who will take transfers from a non FFL. I think The last place I was using closed down.

 

[CZB1962]

Yep. It is up to the FFL. It is not a law, but it won't do any good to argue with the FFL. They can either accept transfers and add conditions, or not.

The funny thing is he knew it was legal but did not want to "take a chance" since he could not see the person who was shipping it. I just wanted to see if this was common since I had never heard of it.

I was just relieved that Jim was Ok with doing it. The first guy made it sound as if I would have a hard time finding someone to do it.

 

[Prometheus]

The funny thing is he knew it was legal but did not want to "take a chance" since he could not see the person who was shipping it. I just wanted to see if this was common since I had never heard of it.

I was just relieved that Jim was Ok with doing it. The first guy made it sound as if I would have a hard time finding someone to do it.

I've found it's about 50/50 .

I haven't done a transaction from a private seller like that in a long time but I stopped patronizing the shop that told me they wouldn't do. Eventually they admitted to knowing it was legal, after denying it. I told the owner exactly why I wouldn't be buying anything from them in the future. Went out of business about a year later as fate would have it.

 

[CZB1962]

I've found it's about 50/50 .

I haven't done a transaction from a private seller like that in a long time but I stopped patronizing the shop that told me they wouldn't do. Eventually they admitted to knowing it was legal, after denying it. I told the owner exactly why I wouldn't be buying anything from them in the future. Went out of business about a year later as fate would have it.

This guy was real nice an even apologized so I am not really upset with him. I just wonder why he is worried about it. Seems to me if its legal, its legal, period, but I suppose he has his reasons.

Jim is great to work with but its a little harder for me to get by his place during his hours. The guy down from me is open from 12 - 7 T-F and in the morning on Sat so it would have been very convenient.

 

[ITPMONGO]

We won't do individual transfers either. Problem is most sellers will ship a firearm without providing any form of identification or way of contacting. We have a limited amount of time to update our bound book to show the acquisition of the firearm. Ive seen sellers send a photocopy of ID but all the important information blacked out with a Sharpie. So it can potentially cause serious problems for the FFL holder.

 

[mrortega]

First, yes, Jim at J&S is a great guy. He's done transfers for guns I've bought at Whittakers and Buds. Second, when a gun comes from another FFL holder you can be pretty sure it's not stolen. You don't have any origin paper trail on a private transfer.

 

[citizenkane]

First, yes, Jim at J&S is a great guy. He's done transfers for guns I've bought at Whittakers and Buds. Second, when a gun comes from another FFL holder you can be pretty sure it's not stolen. You don't have any origin paper trail on a private transfer.

Im not sure I believe that. FFL's don't run the numbers of used guns they take in. There is no reason to think that just because it came from an FFL it couldn't be stolen. They record the info in their bound book as to where it came from. If an FFL takes in a transfer from a non FFL they record the same info.

If the person shipping the firearm includes the necessary info for the dealer to log the firearm in it is no different than if that person walked into the shop and sold them the firearm. The same info is recorded, it's just a matter of is it hand delivered or does it come in a box.

 

[CZB1962]

We won't do individual transfers either. Problem is most sellers will ship a firearm without providing any form of identification or way of contacting. We have a limited amount of time to update our bound book to show the acquisition of the firearm. Ive seen sellers send a photocopy of ID but all the important information blacked out with a Sharpie. So it can potentially cause serious problems for the FFL holder.

That makes sense I guess. I can think back to few threads on here that make me think someone would refuse to show all the relevant info on the photocopy.

 

[shootersix]

their ffl!, their rules!,
yes a ffl can accept a firearm from a individual, but if the seller does something wrong then no transfer can take place, ie not to you, or returned to the shipper, it would have to go back to a ffl holder in their area.

heres an example, we did a transfer from a person, they didnt include the info we needed, ie copy of their dl along with ALL the info we required(all the info that you fill out when you buy a gun), we tried for days to contact the seller, all the while the buyer was getting mad at us because we couldnt transfer the gun to him! we did nothing wrong, but we were the bad guy!, and the buyer just didnt get it, we told him "contact the seller and have him call us, we need the info from him" after a few days, they buyer was even more mad at us, we told him, "if we dont get the correct info from the seller, we will contact the atf turn over the firearm to them and the matter would be between the buyer, the seller, and the atf!"

man the seller couldnt get the info to us fast enough then!(oh and after all that work, we were still expected to do the transfer for our normal fee!)

all it takes is a few transaction like that for a dealer to say "we dont do transfers from individuals"

 

[CZB1962]

their ffl!, their rules!,
yes a ffl can accept a firearm from a individual, but if the seller does something wrong then no transfer can take place, ie not to you, or returned to the shipper, it would have to go back to a ffl holder in their area.

heres an example, we did a transfer from a person, they didnt include the info we needed, ie copy of their dl along with ALL the info we required(all the info that you fill out when you buy a gun), we tried for days to contact the seller, all the while the buyer was getting mad at us because we couldnt transfer the gun to him! we did nothing wrong, but we were the bad guy!, and the buyer just didnt get it, we told him "contact the seller and have him call us, we need the info from him" after a few days, they buyer was even more mad at us, we told him, "if we dont get the correct info from the seller, we will contact the atf turn over the firearm to them and the matter would be between the buyer, the seller, and the atf!"

man the seller couldnt get the info to us fast enough then!(oh and after all that work, we were still expected to do the transfer for our normal fee!)

all it takes is a few transaction like that for a dealer to say "we dont do transfers from individuals"

Typical situation where a few jerks spoil things for everyone. Sorry that happened to you.

 

[shootersix]

Typical situation where a few jerks spoil things for everyone. Sorry that happened to you.

all i did was listen to the fallout! as soon as the raised his voice to me, i passed him to the owner, the gunshop is a part time job, and i dont make enough money to deal with jerks, a$$ hats, and d!*k heads

when someone asks if we will do a individual transfer, i say "have the seller contact us first before he ships the gun"

 

[seedubs1]

This is why the current transfer system set up by the ATF is a ludicrous joke.

They mandate that these transfers go through an FFL. But they don't mandate that the FFL's must do the transfers, and the fees are not regulated either. They also offer no recourse for options outside of finding an FFL that will do the transaction.

If they're going to mandate that these types of transfers go through an FFL, the least they could do is offer a transfer station through a few dedicated locations in each state for those that can't find an FFL that will take their transfer.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Did he think you were part of the LGBT crowd? if so he has EVERY right to not do business with you!

 

[Alpo]

This is why the current transfer system set up by the ATF is a ludicrous joke.

They mandate that these transfers go through an FFL. But they don't mandate that the FFL's must do the transfers, and the fees are not regulated either. They also offer no recourse for options outside of finding an FFL that will do the transaction.

If they're going to mandate that these types of transfers go through an FFL, the least they could do is offer a transfer station through a few dedicated locations in each state for those that can't find an FFL that will take their transfer.

Do you realize what that would cost and who would pay for it? A transfer in Greenwood runs $15 to $20. There is no government office that could do it cheaper.

 

[seedubs1]

The point is...They mandated a regulation, but did not provide the infrastructure necessary to support it. Instead, they relied on private industry to carry out their regulation with no oversight on the cost of a transfer, who they turn away, etc...

If they can't figure out a way to properly support it within a reasonable budget, then it needs to be either done away with or re-thought.

And your "I got mine, screw everyone else" mentality is horrible. Just because you live in an area where you can readily find an FFL that'll do a transfer for $15-20 doesn't mean everyone does. There are a lot of areas where FFL competition is slim, and an FFL can charge an arm and a leg.....Because there is no regulation regarding what they can charge and how they go about certain aspects of a transfer (like turning down all individual transfers).

Hell, I've had one FFL tell me they have such high transfer prices as a penalty for buying your gun elsewhere. They'd rather you bought the gun from them, so they jacked the transfer prices up. Luckily, I live in an area where I can just go to the next shop and never do business there again. But not everyone is so lucky. What if that was the only FFL within 100 miles? That's why there needs to either be more regulation, or there needs to be some sort of an option to do a transfer directly through the BATFE with no middle man (FFL).

If it's going to be mandated, it sure as hell needs to be well regulated. Right now, it is not.

Do you realize what that would cost and who would pay for it? A transfer in Greenwood runs $15 to $20. There is no government office that could do it cheaper.

 

[Alpo]

I have no idea what you're getting at. You want MORE regulation? And you have gun shops in your area, but are worried that someone else doesn't? There are gun shows all over the state. Don't want to deal with an FFL? There is a private party who will probably meet your needs.

Please spend some time reviewing California FFL regulations and pricing. Indiana is a bargain. Yes, some FFL's aren't crazy about on line pricing (from Bud's, etc) because the sales tax differential alone gives out of state enterprises a competitive edge.

 

[CZB1962]

Did he think you were part of the LGBT crowd? if so he has EVERY right to not do business with you!

How could he have known, I wasn't even wearing my rainbow panties that day.