INGO member in handcuffs

[Colt556]

We never heard.

I wasn't feeling all that well Nov/Dec of last year and guess I just missed all of this. Hope it all turned out ok for everyone.

 

[oldfb]

Seriously though, no theft occurred since the weapons were returned! Right?
I mean that works for the rest of us, doesn't it?

Just as long as we return the property it isn't stealing.

 

[finity]

I mean that works for the rest of us, doesn't it?

"I never broke the law...

...I am the law!!!"

 

[oldfb]

I took possession of that red Corvette in the name of officer safety. Otherwise they might get hurt pursuing its lawful licensed owner. Yeah that's what I did your honorable judge and master.

 

[Benny]

Ima go ahead and quote this again...Just in case of that less than .001% chance an IMPD officer hasn't read this yet.

They continued to detain him after being presented with an LTCH? You mean Officer Highsmith and Officer Elliot willfully broke the law, as clearly stated by the Indiana Supreme Court?

Why haven't they been charged for the illegal detentions? There are IMPD officers on this site... what are you going to do to ensure those officers who illegally detained American citizens who broke no law are brought to justice? Your fellow officers illegally seized private property, made demands with no basis in law, and they have not been arrested. Ya'll are always complaining about the cop bashing on this site, here's a chance to do something about it.... arrest your fellow officers who have clearly committed several crimes.

Or be part of their wrongdoing. It's an easy choice... be a cop and uphold the law, or conspire with criminals to help them continue their illegal activities.

 

[finity]

Ima go ahead and quote this again...Just in case of that less than .001% chance an IMPD officer hasn't read this yet.

I don't know if that was your quote or not but if it was let me know so I can rep you for it.

If I've already repped you for it thats OK too. A post like that needs to be repped as much as possible.

Heck I'll rep you just for reposting it.

 

[Benny]

I don't know if that was your quote or not but if it was let me know so I can rep you for it.

If I've already repped you for it thats OK too. A post like that needs to be repped as much as possible.

Heck I'll rep you just for reposting it.

My apologies; I should cite it every time I re-quote it...On the last page, I mentioned that it was Joe Williams' post, but I agree with you it needs to be reposted until it's addressed.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Ima go ahead and quote this again...Just in case of that less than .001% chance an IMPD officer hasn't read this yet.

I'm sure all of the 5 or 6 IMPD officers on INGO have read it, but that leaves ~1595 that aren't on INGO that most likely haven't.

 

[Benny]

I'm sure all of the 5 or 6 IMPD officers on INGO have read it, but that leaves ~1595 that aren't on INGO that most likely haven't.

That's not what I asked.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

That's not what I asked.

My mistake. I went back a page and figured out the question.

 

[Benny]

My mistake. I went back a page and figured out the question.

No problem.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Was this post ever addressed by one of the several IMPD officers we have on this site?

I can't remember if I responded to JW's post, but I don't believe I did. As far as me arresting one of the officers involved in the City Market incident, its not going to happen. Before anyone gets all pissed off by me saying that, allow me to explain.

First of all I wasn't one of the officers involved, and had I been there I would resolved the situation differently. I would have let all of the OCers keep their firearms (well maybe not IndyMonkey, because he really can't be trusted) with the understanding that they don't touch theirs, I don't touch mine. I would have made sure the LTCHs were valid and then sent everyone on their way.

As far as me arresting another officer for detaining the OCers and taking their guns, its not my place. Detaining someone in handcuffs during an investigation is allowed both by law and our rules & regs, and a brief detention does not rise to the level of Criminal Confinement or Kidnapping, even if it is continued after the LTCH is presented. If the detained person feels that the detention is illegal, they need to make a complaint to the appropriate entity within the department and it will be taken from there. If it is determined that an officer does need to be arrested, the determination is most likely made by a consensus of the Chief of Police and the Prosecutor, with much input by the Professional Standards Unit (fancy name for Internal Affairs).

As far as the taking of a firearm rising to the level of theft, it doesn't meet the elements of the offense if it is a brief "detention" of the firearm.

I don't like getting complained on nor do I like recommending that someone complain on an officer, but if anyone feels like they have been the subject of improper treatment by an officer, by all means complain.

 

[Benny]

Thanks Frank, that's what I was looking for.

I wouldn't expect you to arrest another officer after watching the video and hearing INGO's side of the story either.

I just thought JW's post should be addressed and you did just that.

 

[LEaSH]

Thanks Frank. I'm outta rep for the day...

 

[finity]

Frank,

After reading your post it begs the question:

At what point does a decision by the IN Supreme Court become binding on the police to live within the limitations imposed on it by that decision?

If you say you can still continue questioning & detainment in handcuffs along with the continued confiscation of his legally possesed property even after the verification of a valid LTCH when the ONLY PROBABLE CAUSE for the detention in the first place was the OCing of a handgun (which became a non-crime after the LTCH was produced) then what good at all was the INSC decision stating otherwise?

You say that if we feel wronged then we should complain. We should complain to the very entity that was the source of our complaint in the first place? Isn't that kind of like allowing the fox to guard the hen house?

I'm sure you don't know (maybe you do) but consider these rhetorical questions if not:

What percentage of complaints are considered as valid in a given year? (realizing that for all the complaints given there are probably many more not made because of the public's perception that nothing will be done anyway)

If they are valid what if any punishment is given to the cop?

Is the punishment severe enough to make him change his conduct or is it a *wink-wink* "here's a few days off to think about it"?

Obviously I know the answers to the above are situation dependent (sort of) but shouldn't any complaint of officer misconduct be thoroughly investigated by a completely impartial third party & if found to have merit then the officer be punished severly? Officer misconduct usually entails the infringement of a citizens rights. Shouldn't that be the highest standard that we hold a cop to?

Shouldn't those of you who we hire to "protect & serve" hold your fellow officers to this highest standard as well?

 

[E5RANGER375]

Detaining someone in handcuffs during an investigation is allowed both by law and our rules & regs,

Frank thanks for the response. I agree with what your explanation was. but I dont hold you accountable for what other clowns with a badge do.

also the above quote is NOT directed towards you. but heres what I believe on the above quoted part:

I DO NOT believe that detention before and ESPECIALLY after a valid LTCH was presented was legal in this case. because the initial stop itself was regarding the fact they were OC'ing. which is LAWFUL activity and they knew it once they saw the LTCH;s. Also, cuffing someone for a FIRST warning of trespass when its not criminal is not acceptable, so what was the real reason for them cuffing these guys? The only logical explanation I can think of is that the officers involved cared more for tooting their own horns and making a big scene then they cared for the enforcement of the law.

and as far as rules and regs of a department .... yes you may have to follow them to keep your job, but some words that a PAID lawyer wrote for their personal client (the city & police department) doesn't mean the policy or procedure is legal. it just means no citizen has had the money to challenge it in court.

again, Frank, not directed towards you.

 

[esrice]

Wow, two "Shooters" in this thread!

Just for the record, just because you now see "Shooter" under a username does not mean that they earned that title due to this thread. That title will show up in all the threads the user has posted in.

 

[Bill B]

As far as me arresting another officer for detaining the OCers and taking their guns, its not my place. Detaining someone in handcuffs during an investigation is allowed both by law and our rules & regs, and a brief detention does not rise to the level of Criminal Confinement or Kidnapping, even if it is continued after the LTCH is presented. If the detained person feels that the detention is illegal, they need to make a complaint to the appropriate entity within the department and it will be taken from there. If it is determined that an officer does need to be arrested, the determination is most likely made by a consensus of the Chief of Police and the Prosecutor, with much input by the Professional Standards Unit (fancy name for Internal Affairs).
.

Sure, file a complaint. In some towns that will get bogus charges filed against you, costing several thousand dollars to beat. And then you'll have to fight to get your LTCH reinstated. And to top it all off Indiana law makes it virtually impossible for a single citizen to pursue civil remedies, all it takes is one less than morally upstanding officer and a compliant prosecutor and everyone is covered from civil liability. The officer is covered because the prosecutor signed off on it, the prosecutor is covered because the officer swore to it and a judge issued the warrant.
Sorry for the rant, but everytime I see "file a complaint" my blood boils.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Sure, file a complaint. In some towns that will get bogus charges filed against you, costing several thousand dollars to beat. And then you'll have to fight to get your LTCH reinstated. And to top it all off Indiana law makes it virtually impossible for a single citizen to pursue civil remedies, all it takes is one less than morally upstanding officer and a compliant prosecutor and everyone is covered from civil liability. The officer is covered because the prosecutor signed off on it, the prosecutor is covered because the officer swore to it and a judge issued the warrant.
Sorry for the rant, but everytime I see "file a complaint" my blood boils.

That may be true with small town good-ole-boy departments, but with IMPD its a completely different story.

 

[Bill B]

That may be true with small town good-ole-boy departments, but with IMPD its a completely different story.

I honestly believe you. Although my personal experience has made me slightly cynical I have never been a person to bash the police. There are bad apples in every cart, that doesn't mean every apple in the cart is bad.
But let's face it, if a given officer has not violated "policy" then nothing will ever happen to them, regardless of the legality of their actions.