Interesting - Torture in Chicago

[Woobie]

Get rid of "hate crimes" altogether an punishpeople what what they do, not what the say while they are doing it.

Quoted for two reasons:

1) I agree completely

2) Posterity needs to see your keyboard failures.

 

[HoughMade]

Quoted for two reasons:

1) I agree completely

2) Posterity needs to see your keyboard failures.

Still early in the Central time zone.

 

[T.Lex]

Isn't a hate crime simply a type of aggravating circumstance? If it is, they do have they place.

Here's the crux of the argument that they don't have a place: when do we start punishing people "extra" for their thoughts?

People are allowed to think cruel, evil, hateful thoughts. They should be punished when they act on them, for the actions. What they are thinking - even assuming we can prove that - should not be part of the punishment.

 

[churchmouse]

Isn't a hate crime simply a type of aggravating circumstance? If it is, they do have they place.

I would argue (again) that most every violent crime has some level of hate involved.

Gay bashing is in fact against the law.....we are not supposed to bash anybody.
Targeting groups because of skin color/ethnicity is also already against the law as targeting anybody shows intent and raises the bar.
Having been targeted myself (Skin color) I do understand the issues but again, I am not a protected class. I resent the protections. We all have the same rights and privilege under the existing law. Just prosecute accordingly.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Chicago police hold four over live-streamed attack - BBC News

Police Commander Kevin Duffin said the police would investigate whether a hate crime had taken place.
"They're young adults, and they make stupid decisions," he said, and, in reference to the language used, investigators would seek to "determine whether or not this is sincere or just stupid ranting and raving", he said.

Ah, so this was just criminal mischief. Why all the hubub?

 

[Roland of Gilead]

The reports say the victim was mentally challenged, I would see that as far worse than a racial attack. If the victim is indeed mentally handicapped there should be harsh enhancement of the penalties similar to victimizing a child.

Seeing that video makes me think of the old saying capture is not an option, don't be taken alive.

 

[OakRiver]

Ah, so this was just criminal mischief. Why all the hubub?

Just youthful hi-jinks. I mean they only abducted a mentally challenged individual, subjected him to racist abuse, made him drink from a toilet bowl, assaulted him, mutilated him (cut off part of his scalp), posted the acts live for all to see and then abandoned him. I mean after all that we just don't know if they were sincere...

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The reports say the victim was mentally challenged, I would see that as far worse than a racial attack. If the victim is indeed mentally handicapped there should be harsh enhancement of the penalties similar to victimizing a child.

Seeing that video makes me think of the old saying capture is not an option, don't be taken alive.

Do stricter penalties exist for taking advantage/abusing a person that is less-capable of defending themselves (or understanding?)

The only thing I can compare it to, like you, is a child/minor.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Just youthful hi-jinks. I mean they only abducted a mentally challenged individual, subjected him to racist abuse, made him drink from a toilet bowl, assaulted him, mutilated him (cut off part of his scalp), posted the acts live for all to see and then abandoned him. I mean after all that we just don't know if they were sincere...

Those little scallawags... tsk, tsk...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Do stricter penalties exist for taking advantage/abusing a person that is less-capable of defending themselves (or understanding?)

The only thing I can compare it to, like you, is a child/minor.

They should. Unfortunately the punishment I have in mind probably isn't legal.

 

[churchmouse]

They should. Unfortunately the punishment I have in mind probably isn't legal.

Right there with you.

 

[miguel]

Just youthful hi-jinks. I mean they only abducted a mentally challenged individual, subjected him to racist abuse, made him drink from a toilet bowl, assaulted him, mutilated him (cut off part of his scalp), posted the acts live for all to see and then abandoned him. I mean after all that we just don't know if they were sincere...

Agreed. What they need is a new youth center to have a place to take out their frustrations through activities like making model airplanes or playing ball. Our bad...

 

[Woobie]

I want to take this moment to say I love America. Why? You ask. Well sometimes I wonder that too. But I love that we are a nation of laws. I want to cut these people's hands off and make them watch hyenas eat the parts. But it's an emotional response. How much better that we can agree ahead of time what the punishments should be? No emotional component. Now could the penalties be harsher? Yes. Could they be more uniformly enforced? Sure, but that's human error for you. My punishments as a parent are not always equitable, and I only have to keep track of 3 criminals. Do we have too many ways for these people to get out early? Youbetcha. But we agreed on those things at the legislature. That can be changed uniformly and in a just way as well.

Our justice system is pretty darn good by historical standards. It is certainly far better than a lynch mob, which I think would be a particularly ugly entity in an era of social media.

 

[spec4]

I'd like to see them taken out of society, but it won't happen. The only acceptable alternative is life with zero chance of parole.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Police saying it had nothing to do with race, and that he was targeted likely because of his special needs.

Because when I hear "**** white people", I think... "Yeah, this isn't racially motivated."

 

[phylodog]

I don't mind hate crimes being on the books either as stand alone crimes or as aggravating circumstances. People who would lash out at someone different from them for no other reason than they are different don't need to be free to reproduce nor to indoctrinate others in to their perverted way of thinking. I'm sick to the gills of listening to unappreciative idiots complain about how they are the poor victims of discrimination while living in one of the most equitable places on earth. Since we can't make unrealistic *****ing and whining a crime, nor fueling the flames of make believe victimization, I'd like to see those who commit crimes in furtherance of this BS breaking boulders into rocks, rocks into pebbles, pebbles into sand and sand into dust 18 hours a day for the remainder of their lives.

 

[OakRiver]

Police saying it had nothing to do with race, and that he was targeted likely because of his special needs.

Because when I hear "**** white people", I think... "Yeah, this isn't racially motivated."

As a thought experiment what do we think the media coverage, and commentary from our elected representative be, if the races were reversed and a young mentally challenged Person of Color was abducted and treated in this manner by white people?

 

[jagee]

CNN Panelist Blames Trump For Racist Torture of Mentally Disabled Man » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[halfmileharry]

I have NOT and I'm NOT going to watch the video as I've got enough miserable thoughts as it is now. I think I've got the general gist of the crime thanks to the INGO posts on this.
I believe in our judicial system and laws here.
My major thought is they're lucky this isn't a SHTF world right now.
I don't want to hear how they're misunderstood, underprivileged, were turning their lives around, or any other media malarkey.
I don't care what reason or cause they might have thought they had but I have no sympathy for those that will do this kind of thing nor would it bother me to watch them getting the worst of punishments. All and any kindness I might have inside me would be ignored in their cases.

 

[Woobie]

I don't mind hate crimes being on the books either as stand alone crimes or as aggravating circumstances. People who would lash out at someone different from them for no other reason than they are different don't need to be free to reproduce nor to indoctrinate others in to their perverted way of thinking. I'm sick to the gills of listening to unappreciative idiots complain about how they are the poor victims of discrimination while living in one of the most equitable places on earth. Since we can't make unrealistic *****ing and whining a crime, nor fueling the flames of make believe victimization, I'd like to see those who commit crimes in furtherance of this BS breaking boulders into rocks, rocks into pebbles, pebbles into sand and sand into dust 18 hours a day for the remainder of their lives.

My only disagreement would be that I would like your brand of punishment handed out to anyone who treated other people like this. Regardless of whether they had racist intentions or not, they certainly (as CM pointed out) have some brand of hate in their heart.

But hey, I can overlook our differences. Should we start a crowd funding page for your election bid against Donelly?