Investing under Socialism

[poptab]

I was aware the gdp didnt catch all the regulations on industry we have now and did not catch all the taxes and tarrifs they had back then.

I wanted to quantify the effects but its hard to do so. Gdp numbers were all I had.

We could possibly compare the number of industries affected. Dont we currently still have tarrifs on steel and sugar?

I think compliance cost today is pretty high. Is there a way to quantify it?

 

[Hotdoger]

So does Krugman!

Reminds me of Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School . LOL

 

[John Galt]

The numbers don't tell the whole story. Prior to 1913, when the income tax was passed, the government's primary source of revenue was tariffs. The discretionary effect of tariffs is so extreme that we teach first year economics students that they are a failure. I agree with you that the government is huge and powerful today, but I am not completely convinced that the discretionary effect of bad policy is greater today than it was in 1880.



There were no regulations prior to the 1940s. The administrative state didn't exist then, at all.

Do you teach that prior to these timeframes you mentioned, America went from a backwoods nation to a superpower in app. 100 years? This could very well be argued that government staying out of the way creates an atmosphere for unimaginable wealth and prosperity (sort of what the Founding Fathers said).

Now, back on topic of investing in our current environment, we have a government that:
Is openly destroying our currency (read Section 19 of the 1792 Coinage Act to see how they used to deal with currency manipulation)
Just enacted QE3 (because QE1, QE2, TARP, $850 billion Stimulus, etc. all worked so well!) which is printing/inflating $45 BILLION PER MONTH in the stock market for infinity to buy MBS that had already been used as an excuse for the first bailouts!
Has taken over almost every major sector in America through regulation, bailout or taxation.
Prints trillions of dollars to bail out companies that should be allowed to fail, greatly distorting markets and burdening future generations.
Does not prosecute fraud - housing bubble, investing (Jon Corzine), LIBOR scandal, corporate, etc.
Supports an unnaturally low interest rate, squeezing savers.
HFT dominates Wall Street, crowding out the individual investors.

SO, the smart money is to avoid the openly rigged casino that is the American investment system. Would you play high stakes poker with someone that dealt every hand, changed the rules mid-stream, gave themselves extra cards, and played with YOUR money?

 

[9lock]

Are you a serf?

Is the concept of taxation considered a boot on your neck?[/QUOTE

Are you a Tory?

Is the concept of Liberty considered a boot on your neck?

 

[findingZzero]

How much closer do we have to get???? The government pretty much owns, controls through regulation or through Federal Reserve policy:
Education
Healthcare
Retirement
Housing
Energy
Savings/Investments
The financial system/banks
Auto industry
Pharma
Agriculture

And these are just the sectors I named off of the top of my head in 20 seconds. When one stops to consider our KNOWN debt, along with the unfunded liabilities, the obligations of Fannie/Freddie/Derivatives, the Federal Reserve printing currency, and the fact that our government is openly manipulating date (unemployment/inflation data), our level of sociopathic spending, etc., etc., etc. I'd venture to say that Karl Marx is jealous!
We are tolerating the greatest plundering in history, WITH OUR EYES WIDE OPEN!

Under socialism we will equally own everything. Or most of us will own nothing and an elite few will take care of us and themselves.
Unfettered capiltalism is abusive.
Fettered capitalism (gov't regulations) can work, but can become excessive.
Gov't picking winners can work for new, vital, emerging industries. This may also lead to crony capitalism. Pick your representatives wisely.
Splitting the atom can supply endless energy. It can also be used to blow sh*t up. Always stay (keep) on the sunny side....sing along....

 

[lucky4034]

I think being a slumlord is a good way to invest your money...

Property value is really low right now and with all the people that will be going bankrupt after this next housing bubble bursts, there should be plenty of homeless workers looking for a cheap place to rent.

 

[Designer99]

I don't think the labels/terms like Socialism/Marxism/Fascism/Comminism are really that much different, other than the level of force being applied by the Government to the Free Individual. Does it really matter if one has a Left boot or a Right boot on their throat? Can't breathe means you can't breathe. I choose to view things as BigGovernment versus Individual Liberty, the rest is just a distraction!

Wow. This post confirms what I've thought to be true for a long time but could never completely confirm till now. Some people have no clue what socialism, marxism, fascism and communism really are and what the difference is between them, yet use these terms on almost a daily basis on Ingo.

I can see an Ingo drinking game being made out of this.

 

[John Galt]

Wow. This post confirms what I've thought to be true for a long time but could never completely confirm till now. Some people have no clue what socialism, marxism, fascism and communism really are and what the difference is between them, yet use these terms on almost a daily basis on Ingo.

I can see an Ingo drinking game being made out of this.

What has implementation of these ideologies throughout history meant for the Individual? Which one is better for Individual Liberty?

 

[poptab]

Unfettered capiltalism is abusive.

Prove it.

 

[pudly]

Prove it.

FindingZero is correct about that. Pollution, unsafe work environments, etc. come from unregulated capitalism. However, we haven't had unregulated capitalism for many decades and over-regulation is now the rule, choking companies large and small.

 

[poptab]

FindingZero is correct about that. Pollution, unsafe work environments, etc. come from unregulated capitalism. However, we haven't had unregulated capitalism for many decades and over-regulation is now the rule, choking companies large and small.

I see no evidence.
This might help you see things differently.

[ame]http://youtu.be/4Ttbj6LAu0A[/ame]

Pollution may be a problem best solved by government. However, they have not solved it yet and their track record with delivering the mail causes me to doubt they will ever be successful at solving pollution.

I think a free market solution to pollution exists but what it exactly looks like is anyone's guess. Maybe a combination of property rights, lawsuits, and insurance will deal with pollution as well as the government currently deals with pollution.

Saying that if the government didn't exist, everyone would be working in sweatshops, drinking dirty water, and roads wouldn't exist is naive.

 

[poptab]

[ame]http://youtu.be/O2sW2wt3nLU[/ame]

 

[poptab]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEgNemu3mfI&feature=share&list=PLCCD88F93892BEBDD[/ame]

 

[beararms1776]

Some people have no clue what socialism, marxism, fascism and communism really are and what the difference is between them, yet use these terms on almost a daily basis on Ingo.

Uhh, not exactly sure but I bet you could divide the Country into fourths and have a little bit of each. However, neither one sounds like they define Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happieness.

 

[level.eleven]

http://youtu.be/O2sW2wt3nLU

Wow.

Please tell me this isn't what the LP is peddling these days.

 

[poptab]

Wow.

Please tell me this isn't what the LP is peddling these days.

Did you watch the whole video?

He is an economist. He says nothing about his political views.

Just because you dont like what he says dosent make it false. Just thinking the universe is rainbows and lollypops doesnt make it so.

If he is wrong, explain how and why.

 

[poptab]

Here is another one for you to think about.

[ame]http://youtu.be/NxBzKkWo0mo[/ame]

 

[findingZzero]

I see no evidence.
This might help you see things differently.
*****snip*****Saying that if the government didn't exist, everyone would be working in sweatshops, drinking dirty water, and roads wouldn't exist is naive.

I would say swallowing those videos whole is real naivite.

God save us from idealogues and dogmatists.
1. The real market doesn't work that way. Monopolies have no competition, e.g.
2. If you don't trust 'big gum'int why trust 'big corporations.' Oh, yeah, competition. See 1. You elect a representative gov't. Choose your leaders wisely
3. I could make a video extolling the virtues of a Socialist worker's society, but it too would be bullsh*t.
4. Get out of your comfort zone and read some opposing opinions.
5. Most arguments have a germ of truth to them, but don't swallow them whole w/o some deeper analysis.
6. I like lists

 

[poptab]

I would say swallowing those videos whole is real naivite.

God save us from idealogues and dogmatists.

Hey at least they support their claims with facts and reason.

1. The real market doesn't work that way. Monopolies have no competition, e.g.

Show me the evidence for both these claims. Monopolies in the free market dont exist except in theory and even in theory they are flawed. Give me an example from the real market.

2. If you don't trust 'big gum'int why trust 'big corporations.' Oh, yeah, competition. See 1. You elect a representative gov't. Choose your leaders wisely

The difference between big government and big corporations is that big corporations dont point a gun at me and make me buy their stuff.

3. I could make a video extolling the virtues of a Socialist worker's society, but it too would be bullsh*t.

Why is the video bull****? Can you make any reasoned argument without an ad hominem?

4. Get out of your comfort zone and read some opposing opinions.

I grew up being indoctrinated with statist propaganda. How could I not possibly know their arguments? The fact that I dont take them for granted doesnt mean I dont know what they say.

5. Most arguments have a germ of truth to them, but don't swallow them whole w/o some deeper analysis.

Eat the meat and spit out the bones. k

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Bury some treasure in the back yard. Seriously.