Is a AR with a gas piston system the best of both worlds?

[Leo]

Noveske does have a point about dirt back from the chamber. An UZI does not even have a gas system of any kind and it gets filthy inside pretty fast. It is even worse with a suppressor.

Stag Arms makes a factory production piston operated AR rifle. I have sold a couple of them and the guys really like them.

 

[MilitaryArms]

There can be issues with carrier tilt since the AR upper was never designed to have offset forces pushing the bolt carrier. Other than use on suppressed weapons which are known for excessive powder fouling I think it is a solution looking for a problem.

If you really want a piston system I would look at the SCAR, HK, or AK variants. They were designed that way from the ground up which is almost always superior to a Frankensteined system.

Quite true.

At SHOT Show I talked to engineers at a couple of very big names in the AR world about gas piston vs. DI. None of them would go on video/record saying this (for obvious reasons) but every single one of them agreed that DI is a superior system of operation in general for AR15's. The gas piston doesn't work well in the AR rifle, it took many years of tweaking to get it so it didn't break parts within a few thousand rounds. As you mentioned, the rifles were never designed to work with a gas piston and the location where it interacts with the carrier on the rifle is one of the worst places possible. That's one of the reasons they struggled for years to get it to work without breaking/bending parts. Even now we still see issues with carrier tilt and increased wear and friction.

I asked why these companies offered piston AR's and they all said that they make them because the market wants them, they do it to be competitive. What the market wants isn't always the best.

If you want a gas piston rifle, get one designed from the ground up to operate with a gas piston. If you want an AR, get one that works as it was designed to work.

Of course this is nothing but my opinion.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Quite true.

At SHOT Show I talked to engineers at a couple of very big names in the AR world about gas piston vs. DI. None of them would go on video/record saying this (for obvious reasons) but every single one of them agreed that DI is a superior system of operation in general for AR15's. The gas piston doesn't work well in the AR rifle, it took many years of tweaking to get it so it didn't break parts within a few thousand rounds. As you mentioned, the rifles were never designed to work with a gas piston and the location where it interacts with the carrier on the rifle is one of the worst places possible. That's one of the reasons they struggled for years to get it to work without breaking/bending parts. Even now we still see issues with carrier tilt and increased wear and friction.

I asked why these companies offered piston AR's and they all said that they make them because the market wants them, they do it to be competitive. What the market wants isn't always the best.

If you want a gas piston rifle, get one designed from the ground up to operate with a gas piston. If you want an AR, get one that works as it was designed to work.

Of course this is nothing but my opinion.

Thanks for that comment. I never would have guessed that. I'm definitely glad I didn't go the piston route on my build after reading this. I really wanted to do piston since I'm gonna be suppressed about 100%, I would have thought it would be cleaner. But what they're saying makes sense. Gas tube or not, that gas is gonna back into the chamber.

 

[24Carat]

Nice responses and a valuable thread. Thank you. My primary focus (financially driven) is a .308 bolt gun so I am imagining my purchase after that is a dream right now. We are just getting back on our feet and a "reach out and touch'm" firearm is a priority.

 

[windellmc]

I've always preferred a piston/operating rod type design.
I also don't use a suppressor.

My LWRC upper runs much cleaner than my standard Colt AR15 A2 HBAR.

The HBAR will begin requiring the Forward Assist in the 350 round neighborhood, and the LWRC hasn't shown a limit as of yet.

Just cut to the chase use what YOU LIKE, because these threads on this subject ALWAYS end up with some saying they like them and others saying you don't "need" 'em.

There are a lot of DI ARs that can go further than 350 rounds between cleanings without needing to use the forward assist. Do you run that Hbar wet or dry?