Is it illegal to own. . . . .

[PatMcGroyne]

. . . . an AR- lower with Select-Fire markings on it, but semi-only guts in it??

 

[IndyMonkey]

nope.

 

[IndyMonkey]

This is the lower of my new ar.

 

[Eddie]

I'm no expert, but here is what the State statute says:

IC 35-41-1-18.3 "Machinegun" defined

Chapter 1. Jurisdiction and Definitions
Sec. 18.3. "Machine gun" means a weapon that:
(1) shoots; or
(2) can be readily restored to shoot; automatically more than one (1) shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
As added by P.L. 211-1997, SEC.1.

I don't know about federal law.

 

[IndyMonkey]

This will be the next lower that I will buy for my MP5 clone. Its kind of poser like, but then again the whole gun is just for fun.

 

[Seancass]

I did not know this was legal, not there there is any reason it shouldn't be. Now i kinda want one too.

 

[ezdubbin97]

(2) can be readily restored to shoot; automatically more than one (1) shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
As added by P.L. 211-1997, SEC.1.

I would take that to mean that if it had the hole for the auto sear pin, that it might fall into that grey area. If it is like the above Spike's lower, you should be fine since the millwork is the same as a semi.

 

[shooter521]

Silly maybe, and could cause some confusion/consternation on the part of an onlooker (or cop) who doesn't know about such things, but not illegal.

 

[UncleMike]

I would take that to mean that if it had the hole for the auto sear pin, that it might fall into that grey area. If it is like the above Spike's lower, you should be fine since the millwork is the same as a semi.

According to the latest (arbitrary) "ruling" from the BATFE, if a receiver has the pin hole in the proper position for an auto sear it IS capable of being readily converted to fire full auto. (The wording that I've seen is, "Once a full auto. Always a full auto.") They have confiscated several receivers and complete weapons in this condition. Their effort at the moment seems to be finding all of the de-milled AK type weapons that have the auto sear hole. I'm certain that AR platform weapons are also under scrutiny.
The only way to be sure would be to get copies of the latest BATFE rulings and err on the side of caution when buying a questionable receiver.
Mike

 

[samot]

According to the latest (arbitrary) "ruling" from the BATFE, if a receiver has the pin hole in the proper position for an auto sear it IS capable of being readily converted to fire full auto. (The wording that I've seen is, "Once a full auto. Always a full auto.") They have confiscated several receivers and complete weapons in this condition. Their effort at the moment seems to be finding all of the de-milled AK type weapons that have the auto sear hole. I'm certain that AR platform weapons are also under scrutiny.
The only way to be sure would be to get copies of the latest BATFE rulings and err on the side of caution when buying a questionable receiver.
Mike

I think the AR platform would have to have the sear block milled away, as well as the pin hole
dont know anything about the AK

 

[IndyMonkey]

According to the latest (arbitrary) "ruling" from the BATFE, if a receiver has the pin hole in the proper position for an auto sear it IS capable of being readily converted to fire full auto. (The wording that I've seen is, "Once a full auto. Always a full auto.") They have confiscated several receivers and complete weapons in this condition. Their effort at the moment seems to be finding all of the de-milled AK type weapons that have the auto sear hole. I'm certain that AR platform weapons are also under scrutiny.
The only way to be sure would be to get copies of the latest BATFE rulings and err on the side of caution when buying a questionable receiver.
Mike

What about the registered full auto trigger packs.Cant those be installed in Donor weapons?

Im not up to speed on the full auto stuff, maybe one day I can afford one.

 

[samot]

What about the registered full auto trigger packs.Cant those be installed in Donor weapons?

Im not up to speed on the full auto stuff, maybe one day I can afford one.

I guess that depends on what weapons platform you are refering to. Registered full auto trigger packs for HKs are the machine guns, & can be moved between host weapons

 

[IndyMonkey]

I guess that depends on what weapons platform you are refering to. Registered full auto trigger packs for HKs are the machine guns, & can be moved between host weapons

Right, that kills the once a machine gun always a machine gun saying.

 

[UncleMike]

Normally I'd submit a post like this to clear up a question.
However when it comes to the BATFE nothing is clear.
EVER!!

Of all the different firearms defined as NFA weapons, machineguns are the only type where the receiver
of the weapon by itself is an NFA firearm. As a result, it is important that the receiver of a machinegun
be properly identified. Many machineguns incorporate a “split” or “hinged” receiver design so the main
portion of the weapon can be easily separated into upper and lower sections. Additionally, some
machineguns utilize a construction method where the receiver is composed of a number of
subassemblies that are riveted together to form the complete receiver.
The following table lists specific models of machineguns incorporating the above designs and the
portion of the weapon that has been held to be the receiver. This list is not all- inclusive. For
information concerning a split or hinged receiver type machinegun not listed below, contact FTB at
(304) 260-1699.
Model Receiver
Armalite AR10 lower
Armalite AR15 (all variations) lower
Armalite AR18 lower
Beretta AR70 lower
British L1A1 upper
Browning M1917 right side plate
Browning M1919 (all variations) right side plate
Browning M2 & M2HB right side plate
Colt M16 (all variations) lower
Czech Vz 61 lower
FN FNC lower
Model Receiver
FN CAL upper
FN FAL upper
11
French MAT 49 upper
German MP38 & MP40 upper
H&K G3 (all variations) upper
H&K MP5 (all variations) upper
IMI UZI upper
M61 Vulcan outer housing
M134 Minigun outer housing
Maxim MG08 and 08/15 right side plate
SIG AMT upper
SIG STG 57 upper
SIG 550 Series (all variations) upper
Soviet PPsH 41 upper
Soviet PPS 43 upper
Steyr MPi 69 upper
Steyr MPi 81 upper
Thompson submachinegun (all variations) upper
Vickers water cooled machineguns right side plate
The “designed to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function
of the trigger” portion of the definition relates to the characteristics of the weapon that permit full
automatic fire. ATF has also held that the “designed” definition includes those weapons which have not
previously functioned as machineguns but possess design features which facilitate full automatic fire by
simple modification or elimination of existing component parts. ATF has published rulings concerning
specific firearms classified as machineguns based on this interpretation of the term “designed.”15

Concerning the installation of conversion kits in semiautomatic firearms, it must be pointed out that the
receiver of the firearm may not be modified to permit fully automatic fire. Such modification results in
the making of a machinegun which is prohibited by 18 U.S.C. 922(o).

Source = http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf


The items in red are what the BATFE uses to determine if a weapon is full auto. They have "freely" interpreted this to mean a receiver that was originally made with a auto sear pin hole, or one that has had the hole drilled post production.
As with all Federal Govt. institutions the BATFE changes the rules at the whim of the current Director and an item that is legal today, may not be legal tomorrow.
Mike

 

[UncleMike]

Right, that kills the once a machine gun always a machine gun saying.

Actually it may kill the saying in our minds, but it is the BAFTE's rulings that will get a person arrested.
Mike

 

[IndyMonkey]

Thanks for posting that Mike.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Right, that kills the once a machine gun always a machine gun saying.

No, because you haven't made your receiver into a machinegun. The registered conversion device is the MG itself, and being installed into a firearm doesn't make that firearm a MG itself.

Lots to be learned at arfcom in the Class III and M16 boards. Read up if you really want to understand it all. Its difficult to understand, but after a while most of the rulings begin the make sense, or at least they're not so confusing.

 

[RA8]

I did not know this was legal, not there there is any reason it shouldn't be. Now i kinda want one too.

When i see your avatar, all I see is a plate of sushi.

 

[samot]

Right, that kills the once a machine gun always a machine gun saying.

Not really, as country boy said, the trigger pack is the MG, & thus remains the MG no matter what host weapon you put it in.
Clear as mud aint it !!!

 

[ezdubbin97]

When i see your avatar, all I see is a plate of sushi.

Your not the only one...I see the same as well .