Is steel cased .223 bad for ar's?????

[Prometheus]

Short answer? No.

Long answer, brass is better for an AR (which is what your initial question is) but the cost savings far outweigh and negate any *possible* side effects of prolonged use of steel cased.

For most shooters steel cases will never be an issue. For shooters who fire tens of thousands of rounds, the cost savings will more than make up for any issues that may be speed up by use of the steel casings.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Everyone seems to forget you can reload your brass at least 5 times. Try doing that with steel case. Oh wait, you can't.

For the record, you can reload steel cases. The number of reloads you get out of them vary depending on the load (same as brass) but if they are boxer primed, and lubed properly, you can reload them just the same. You can reload Berdan primed cases as well, but it takes more effort to find Berdan primers and I believe you have to have a special tool for it.

Also, one thing people commonly found was you need to clean the inside of the neck well before placing your bullet into the case as it may cut some of the plating of the bullet away as you seat it, but reloading steel cases is actually more common than most people on INGO think.

reload steel cased ammo? - AR15.COM

 

[kludge]

It's not the cases, it's the bullets... but re-read the post two up from this one (#41) and the article linked in post #9 and judge for yourself.

 

[ccolip2189]

i have ran a ton of steel throught my stag arms model 2 not one problem

 

[SpaldingPM]

I've run 100% steel through my doublestar carbine. Not a single hiccup. Rd count is somewhere near 1000-1200.
Im saving all my brass for my next build... 20" bull barrel all purpose varmint/hunting AR

 

[loony1]

My noveske eats more steel than brass, however my SS barreled Larue prefers brass but eats anything.

 

[Tanfodude]

Here we go again about polymer doing this or that.

I've shot 3K rounds of wolf on my M&P15x and all these issues described has NEVER happened to me. All of them shot at Atterbury.

Wolf was around $3.99 per box before the panic, cheap and dead on at 50/100 yards.

 

[wsenefeld]

if it won't run on anything i put in it it's not worth havin'...

The rifle wasn't designed to run steel. It's like putting E85 in your non E85 car and getting mad when it doesn't run right.

 

[ckcollins2003]

The rifle wasn't designed to run steel. It's like putting E85 in your non E85 car and getting mad when it doesn't run right.

Really? You're saying that a rifle manufacturer took the extra time to make sure that their rifle would not run right on steel cased ammo?

It's starting to get deep...

 

[wsenefeld]

Really? You're saying that a rifle manufacturer took the extra time to make sure that their rifle would not run right on steel cased ammo?

It's starting to get deep...

Haha ok, maybe not e85. Should have said its like running 87 in a car designed to run 93. It might run but it's not going to be happy about it.

Better?

 

[Uncle Jrod]

It all comes down to shooting what you prefer and what you can afford. I can afford brass, I want to shoot brass, so I'll keep on shooting brass. If all you can afford or get is steel, and you're willing to feed it to your AR, that's your business.

 

[MikeDVB]

Haha ok, maybe not e85. Should have said its like running 87 in a car designed to run 93. It might run but it's not going to be happy about it.

Better?

Well - there is a huge difference between 87 and 93. Running 87 in a car designed for 93 will cause the gasoline to detonate/knock/pre-ignite resulting in potential engine damage and power loss... Most engine control units will detect this and retard timing [killing a lot of power] to keep the engine from being damaged.

I know of no such feature in an AR that would 'detect' steel and change the way the gun functions to accommodate it. That said there are really two issues with steel ammo which may or may not be actual issues:
1. It's harder than brass and will cause more wear [as apposed to being worn itself].
2. It's coated which may or may not flake off/cause issues.

Realistically either *should* work just fine but if you have a tight chamber or other issues where your rifle is right on the edge of a tolerance you may have issues with steel where you don't with brass.

I wouldn't say anybody designs their rifle not to handle steel, they just suggest using brass as it will result in less wear on the receiver in most cases.

 

[ckcollins2003]

It all comes down to shooting what you prefer and what you can afford. I can afford brass, I want to shoot brass, so I'll keep on shooting brass. If all you can afford or get is steel, and you're willing to feed it to your AR, that's your business.

+1 This is exactly what it boils down to.

There are a lot of myths about the steel casing causing damage to your rifle, which are completely false. Steel cases are much, much softer than the tool steel used on AR parts. If it wasn't, wouldn't your bolt, barrel, and chamber expand just like it? (Think about it) Therefore, by common sense (seems it's getting harder and harder to come by these days), they will not cause additional wear.

There are pros and cons of both steel cased ammo and brass cased ammo. Shoot what you want, but don't knock steel cased ammo with internet myths. Hornady makes steel cased ammo that will out shoot your brass cased Winchester and Federal any day of the week. It's not the casing which cause the problems.

If I had a tight tolerance, custom, match grade chamber and barrel, would I run Tula through it? No, of course not. I paid good money for that barrel to see good groups. However, for any battle rifle where you only need 1.5-2 MOA groupings, Tula and all of the other steel cased budget ammo will work just fine without doing damage to your rifle. My AR has seen pretty much nothing but Tula. It's in great shape and I haven't had a single problem with it. Millions of other people have the same experiences.

 

[IndyGunworks]

If you factor in selling your once fired brass (assuming you do not reload) then brass is by far the best way to go.

I do not shoot steel, and i would NEVER recommend shooting steel cased ammo.

 

[shytrain01]

I just bought a new Mossberg .223. Does anyone have any experience on whether or not it would handle the steel round?

 

[digitalrebel80]

It's not the cases, it's the bullets... but re-read the post two up from this one (#41) and the article linked in post #9 and judge for yourself.

This ^^^^
its the bimetal bullets that are bad the steel cases are fine. Wolf make bimetal and regular lead with a copper jacket. The bimetal is a steel jacketed bullet that is copper plated (very thin copper plate so the steel will contact the barrel) the steal jacket is what tears up the barrel.

 

[MikeDVB]

This ^^^^
its the bimetal bullets that are bad the steel cases are fine. Wolf make bimetal and regular lead with a copper jacket. The bimetal is a steel jacketed bullet that is copper plated (very thin copper plate so the steel will contact the barrel) the steal jacket is what tears up the barrel.

I wasn't aware of this - any way to know beyond simply knowing or stripping the plating off of one of the bullets to find out?

 

[arthrimus]

Steel cased is just fine in an AR. I run it in mine all of the time. The laquer coated steel leaving melted laquer in the chamber is B.S. as well. Steel cased ammo doesn't expand as much as brass, so more debris is allowed into the chamber when shooting steel cased. That's why you get guys with jammed up ARs running steel cased ammo.

If you run a single brass round through every ten rounds in your mags your chamber will stay clean. That single brass case acts like a chamber brush, it rips most of the buildup out of there when it's ejected. You'll never see a dirtier brass casing, but your AR will run steel cased ammo like a champ.

 

[ryknoll3]

While they won't hurt the rifle physically, I have many friends telling me that the polymer coated ammo has a habit of gluing itself into the barrel after a few rounds. I have had that problem myself with polymer coated steel case .223, but never had a problem with the lacquer coated stuff.

When shooting polymer coated .223, I always bring along a steel cleaning rod to knock out the stuck shell. They always pop out easily, and a little cleaning allows me to fire a few more rounds before the next one glues itself in.

And then I have heard of many people not having any problems with either polymer or lacquer coated steel case ammo.

From my understanding...

Polymer coated Steel is ok to run. It will not "glue up" your barrel.

Old school Lacquer coated Steel is not ok... it can leave behind residue and "glue up" your barrel. This is where the myth comes from that all steel is bad.

Apparently most of the steel cased stuff on the market is now polymer coated and fine to shoot through your AR.

HOWEVER... steel cases are hard on your extractor and will wear it out faster, but if you count the price difference between brass and steel, then the price difference over time will pay for a new extractor.


.........

NOTE... I am not an expert. This is just "my understanding". I run Tula steel cased all the time and have had no problems.

First off, the steel they use to make steel cases is not near as hard as the steel that is used to make a barrel, chamber, etc. Second, the laquer, or now polymer does not burn off in the chamber. Steel does not expand like brass when heated. So, the steel casings do not expand as much in the chamber, compared to brass. This allows more carbon to build up in the chamber. A hot chamber full of carbon can cause a case to stick in the chamber. I have not seen it happen with brass cases, but have with steel. I have seen some AR's that will absolutely not cycle steel cased ammo. Test a box or two before you buy in quanity. I have never ran steel cased ammo though my AR build, but I reload.

^This.

Lacquer or polymer coated ammo does NOT "glue up" your chamber. It does not leave residue. People have done tests with lacquer ammo trying to melt the lacquer with a propane torch. It does NOT come off.

The problem is that steel cases do not have the elasticity that the brass cases have. When you fire, the case expands and seals tight to the chamber walls. Steel cases do not seal as tight as brass, and allow carbon and combustion residue to stick to the chamber walls. Eventually, this will cause a case to stick in the chamber. Depending on how you chamber is reamed, you will see varying results using steel.

If you keep your chamber clean, you shouldn't have any problems running steel casings. You will just have a shorter interval before your chamber needs to be cleaned.

 

[03A3]

I wasn't aware of this - any way to know beyond simply knowing or stripping the plating off of one of the bullets to find out?

You can check for a bimetal jacket with a magnet. Like the Greek ammo that CMP sells, there is a notation on their website that says "This ammunition attracts a magnet" or something similar.
This is due to some (several) ranges/locales not allowing bimetal projectiles due the risk of starting a fire/wildfire caused by bullets creating a spark on impact with rocks ect.
A lot of 7.62x51 Nato ammunition is bimetal. A lot of US .30-06 M2 Ball and AP ammunition was/is bimetal. I have some bimetal WWI .30-06 ammo. Pre-M2 Ball.

I shoot a lot of steel cased .223 with few problems. I have stuck a brass cased cartridge in the chamber a few times because I didn't clean the chamber after shooting a bunch of steel cased ammo. It takes quite a bit of steel cased ammo to foul a chamber to the point that I've had problems chambering/extracting brass cased ammo. This is with .556 chambers.

Most of the cheap steel cased ammo is dirty. Real dirty. I compare it to Remington bulk pack .22 LR. Cheap, dirty burning ammo.