Is the carry of a 1911 possibly fatal 4 U???

[theturtle06]

sooooo....I was tooling around on wikipedia, and noticed something really interesting.

M1911 pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go down to the "Design" section...anyone notice anything?

Why does this guy have such a vendetta against the 1911? Have any of the 1911 users EVER had this happen? Let alone been able to repeat it using a normal shooting grip?

 

[dr632]

Amazing nobody has commented and explain why the Russians designed their pistol with that clip on the backside of the slide stop.

Is that true they added that feature to their design because of this failure mode?

It seems a recessed slide stop would be more appropriate than putting on all that garbage? I guess I would believe they were incapable of machining parts to the appropriate tolerances and the slide stop would fail or fall out on it's own?

Does anyone know the real reason(s) for the Russian design?

 

[theturtle06]

Amazing nobody has commented and explain why the Russians designed their pistol with that clip on the backside of the slide stop.

Is that true they added that feature to their design because of this failure mode?

It seems a recessed slide stop would be more appropriate than putting on all that garbage? I guess I would believe they were incapable of machining parts to the appropriate tolerances and the slide stop would fail or fall out on it's own?

Does anyone know the real reason(s) for the Russian design?

While I am not an expert on said Russian pistol but I have NEVER heard of this happening with a 1911. This is probably because of 2 things.

1 - I have NEVER seen anyone or heard of ANYONE other than the OP suggesting this firing grip.
2 - The 1911 was designed to require you to line up the disassembly notch to remove the slide stop. The Russian pistol in question may not have had similar engineering.

With a 1911, if you use any conventional grip, I simply cannot foresee the slide stop being knocked out of place. Not to mention, the timing would have to be just right...the slide would have be recoiling and you would have to be pushing on the slide stop with a (relatively) significant amount of force, right as the disassembly notch was riding backwards over the slide stop's disassembly catch. When I take my 1911 apart I have to use a good bit of conscious force into pushing the slide stop pin out. It's crazy that he is so focused on this point grip as I imagine people's thumbs hitting the slide stop and locking the slide back with rounds left in the mag is substantially more common.

I always though the countersunk slide stop pin holes were for laser grips.

For why it was on the Russian pistol? Perhaps it was easier to manufacture the pistols that way. Perhaps the Russian pistol had an engineering shortcoming that allowed the slide stop pin to be manipulated and have that happen. I'd imagine that it was a combination of what you said and the Russian Elite Spetznas Grip that makes them such a deadly force with their Tokarev pistols

 

[randyb]

I guess since I use the "old" style of shooting method I should be fine with my 1911.

That "method" looks incredible awkward.
You are essentially holding onto the handgun with your ring finger and your pinky finger.
Seems like you would be losing some major stability, not to mention that
if you were in close quarters would you rather have 3 fingers wrapped
around your grip or 2 when someone grabs your gun?

That video was probably made by a 1911 hater.

I will keep three fingers griping the handgun and one to pull the trigger, using two would slow rate of fire and I don't see any appreciable accuracy over proper training to fire like almost every other shooter I have seen. The ONLY time I have even heard of using the middle finger to shoot is on the SMLE rifle and the grip was modified to work the bolt faster (its on the Box of truth web site I believe)

 

[OD*]

sooooo....I was tooling around on wikipedia, and noticed something really interesting.

M1911 pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go down to the "Design" section...anyone notice anything?

Why does this guy have such a vendetta against the 1911? Have any of the 1911 users EVER had this happen? Let alone been able to repeat it using a normal shooting grip?

Wikipedia is a wonderful thing. You can instantly be incompetent in any area of expertise.

 

[theturtle06]

Wikipedia is a wonderful thing. You can instantly be incompetent in any area of expertise.

I'm not claiming to be an expert but I am just saying, there just happens to be an "ad" on the wiki page linking to his site and it also specifically talks about this silly "point" aiming. What are the odds...ya think he had anything to do with it?

 

[IndyBeerman]

sooooo....I was tooling around on wikipedia, and noticed something really interesting.

M1911 pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go down to the "Design" section...anyone notice anything?

Why does this guy have such a vendetta against the 1911? Have any of the 1911 users EVER had this happen? Let alone been able to repeat it using a normal shooting grip?

Wikipedia is a wonderful thing. You can instantly be incompetent in any area of expertise.

I'm not claiming to be an expert but I am just saying, there just happens to be an "ad" on the wiki page linking to his site and it also specifically talks about this silly "point" aiming. What are the odds...ya think he had anything to do with it?

Guess what, it's not there now!! How'd that happen?

I wonder how many times that paragraph has been added and deleted?

 

[econnell]

absolutely stupid, anyone that knows their weapon would know from shooting repetition where their "trigger finger" needs to be...on second thought, I would rather have 4 fingers and a thumb holding my gun instead of 3 on the grip...what if someone decided to grab your gun?....imho well I will keep it to myself

 

[OD*]

I'm not claiming to be an expert but I am just saying, there just happens to be an "ad" on the wiki page linking to his site and it also specifically talks about this silly "point" aiming. What are the odds...ya think he had anything to do with it?

I know amigo, I meant that as a slam to Wiki and not at you, I apologize for it coming across that way.

 

[OD*]

Guess what, it's not there now!! How'd that happen?

I wonder how many times that paragraph has been added and deleted?

It's baaack...

 

[Aaron B.]

M1911 pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See the revision timestamp and author.

PS - Jam is something that goes on toast. Technical writing skills on par with the rest of this BS.

 

[theturtle06]

I know amigo, I meant that as a slam to Wiki and not at you, I apologize for it coming across that way.

No worries I read it after knowing that and it makes sense. -1 for my reading comprehension

M1911 pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See the revision timestamp and author.

PS - Jam is something that goes on toast. Technical writing skills on par with the rest of this BS.

^^^^^^ this...haha. That's what I was citing. I'm sure they didn't encourage soldiers to use the point-shoot method because it is a HORRIBLE IDEA - regardless of it messing with the slide stop pin!

 

[printcraft]

Good News!

I am offering a custom design point shooting frame for the 1911.
This should alleviate any concern with the 1911 design.

I has the proper indexing for middle finger trigger technique,
not to be confused with the five point palm exploding heart technique.

It will be called the 1911POS
(you decide what POS means, could mean PointOfShoot or )

 

[theturtle06]

Good News!

I am offering a custom design point shooting frame for the 1911.
This should alleviate any concern with the 1911 design.

I has the proper indexing for middle finger trigger technique,
not to be confused with the five point palm exploding heart technique.

It will be called the 1911POS
(you decide what POS means, could mean PointOfShoot or )

Dang!!! This is gonna revolutionize the 1911 market! I can't believe that in 100 years no one has thought of such an ingenious and brilliant design like this already!!!

Oh and YES I'm quoting an image.

 

[The Meach]

So for ****s and giggles I just grabbed my 1911 and tried this grip.

And the op is right. your index finger would definitely depress the slide stop while firing.

However this would be a secondary problem to the fact it is going to fly out of your hand and hit you in the face. Trying to hold up a 4-5 pound gun that shoots a .45 with just your ring and pinky fingers is retardo.

I do look forward to the youtube videos of people trying it tho

 

[Glock21]

Guys, Captain Point Shooter has made all of 11 posts on illinoiscarry.com in the past 3 years - all of them an attempt to sell his "product."

He posted this exact same thing (plane pictures, and all) a few days ago there:

Is the carry of a 1911 possibly fatal 4 U? - IllinoisCarry.com

Ignore him and he will go away.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Guy's here's what a Tokarev TT-33 looks like on the slide lock side, notice the absence of a slide stop plunger like the 1911 has.

Also notice that it only has a slide lock, not a notch for the slide removal like the 1911. Hence the reason for the plate on the right side to prevent the pin from sliding.

This design could lead to a slide stop being pushed out, IN A RESTING NON-FIRING CONDIDTION, but if firing it could happen at the end of the forward cycle when there is no pressure on the slide stop.

 

[rhino]

As Glock21 noted, this guy desperately wants attention. Even ridiculing the obvious is going to help satisfy his emotional needs. I choose to ignore him.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I've been shooting 1911 pistols for roughly 25 years, never had a slide stop induced jam, ever. Never heard of that shooting style used, ever. Never seen that shooting style, ever. Never been to a class that advocated that shooting style, ever. Never had a competitive shooting instructor describe, demonstrate or advocate that style, ever.

Heck my wife never even told me I was doing it wrong by using my index finger to pull the trigger and she always corrects me when I'm wrong!

I agree. This is total crap.

 

[Vanguard.45]

Nope, I'm starting to agree with the theory that 1911s are unsafe!

If everybody could please just send me all of your 1911s, I'll make sure they don't hurt you!

I'll take one for the team on this one, guys, so just send 'em on!

Here to serve,

Vanguard.45