Isn't this illegal?

[Bluedragon]

Not sure if this has already been posted but in case it hasn't...I spotted this on armslist...now I don't know a whole lot about SBR's..but isn't attaching a foregrip of any kind on a "handgun" illegal? Also the seller is including a stock to install on said handgun...now in the ATF's eyes isn't that considered "intent" to build?

ARMSLIST - For Sale: Century Arms USA Made AK Milled Pistol with upgrades

 

[menzzer37]

It makes it an AOW and is controlled by the NFA. Google pistol fore grip and you will see the official letter.

 

[doglb]

Mounting a vertical grip on any pistol style weapon is illegal, however the AFG is an exception. I have read several threads and seen ATF letters stating that the AFG is legal on AR pistols. So I would assume that it would be just as legal on any AK pistol.

 

[Bluedragon]

But even as an AOW doesn't it still require a transfer tax? I'm pretty sure it's like a $5 dollar tax...but still....and being NFA what about any type of paper work?

 

[doglb]

Here is the link from AR15 (last page)
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id...TMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en

Question 7 asks about a AFG, it states that "Yes" it is legal to mount it on an AR pistol. I would still check with Indiana, however this individual was allowed and has paperwork to back it up!

 

[LEaSH]

trap

The AFG is OK but intent is there with the stock. Or what do they use: "constructive intent"?

 

[Bluedragon]

That's what I thought too.

 

[BogWalker]

I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Signal23]

Yea, having all these parts together, prior to having a stamp would be a problem I think. I am not 100%, but the assumption is the stock fits and is attachable in it's current state.......looks like trouble to me.

 

[Bluedragon]

Not only that but to take the legal route of an SBR don't you have to have the gun itself engraved before you attach the stock even after you receive the tax stamp?

 

[MolonLabe7]

Seems a bit fishy..

 

[Shoots4Fun]

I thought it would be legal except if you actually attach the stock. I'm no lawyer and don't own any of the said parts, just thinking out loud.

 

[Bluedragon]

The way I understand it...if you have the parts to turn it into an SBR in your house with the rifle in the same house without the approved tax stamp... it is considered "intent to build" by the ATF.

 

[printcraft]

The way I understand it...if you have the parts to turn it into an SBR in your house with the rifle in the same house without the approved tax stamp... it is considered "intent to build" by the ATF.

This is how I understand it as well. /\

Looks like the stock is threaded on the end, I wonder if he drilled and tapped the rear trunnion or
used the swivel sling mount point?


AFG is ok on a pistol.
I didn't think it was up until a few weeks ago when I was informed here on INGO that the AFG was permitted.

Stupid..... but there your have it.

 

[tradertator]

This is all second hand information, as I haven't contacted the ATF for the answer. That said, everything I've read on the interwebz says an AFG is OK on a pistol, and having the parts to put a stock on an AK does not constitute intent to build since the receiver needs modified to attach it. Using the same logic, one can own an 870 and hacksaw, without the intent of creating a SBS. Drill holes in the rear trunnion plate, and different story. An AR is different, because you merely need to unthread the pistol receiver extension, and thread a CAR stock receiver extension to create an illegal SBR. That said, it is always a good idea to err on the side of caution when dealing with any Federal alphabet agency, especially the BATF due to their tendency of not being consistent. The stakes are WAY too high, to risk it

 

[TheWabbit]

The way some of you are reading the law, anyone with an AK pistol and a rear trunnion that could be used on or actually on ANY AK would be guilty.

This is a milled AK receiver. If he is selling it with holes drilled in the receiver, that is one thing but he said it is new. You can't magically install that stock in an untapped receiver.

 

[ArmedRPh]

I did send the ATF Tech team a letter on this subject during my own conversion of a Draco to a SBR earlier this year. Same idea...can I put a Magpul AFG on my Draco pistol before I get the stamp. No holes drilled in the trunion. They said yes.
I'll put the link below. I've never tried it before, so if it doesn't show up you can search for the original post I did on it. It's in the NFA section under the title of "is the an AOW" I included a scan of the reply from the ATF in that post.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class_iii_nfa/200569-is_this_an_aow-2.html#post2893099

 

[printcraft]

The way some of you are reading the law, anyone with an AK pistol and a rear trunnion that could be used on or actually on ANY AK would be guilty.

This is a milled AK receiver. If he is selling it with holes drilled in the receiver, that is one thing but he said it is new. You can't magically install that stock in an untapped receiver.

The stock pictured with the ad has me wondering.

This is not from his ad but.................

 

[tradertator]

The stock pictured with the ad has me wondering.

This is not from his ad but.................

Should still be fine. Lots of AK pistols are sold from the factory with sling attachments on the butt of them. Where I would worry is if you had an AK pistol with threaded holes on the rear trunnion plate that mysteriously lined up with an ACE folding mechanism.

 

[Tactical Studmuffin]

Remember folks... it's not illegal until you get caught!