"Isolationism" : It does not mean what you think it means

[rambone]

Isolationism - Wikipedia

Isolationism is a foreign policy adopted by a nation in which the country refuses to enter into any alliances, foreign trade or economic commitments, or international agreements in hopes of focusing all of its resources into advancement within its own borders while remaining at peace with foreign countries by avoiding all entanglements of foreign agreements. In other words, it asserts both of the following:

1. Non-interventionism – Political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial differences (self-defense).
2. Protectionism – There should be legal barriers to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states.

Isolationism has two parts. Without one part or the other, the criteria do not meet the dictionary definition of the word.

If a candidate supports trade with literally everyone willing, then they are not an isolationist. See Non-interventionism.


Let's spread the knowledge and educate our friends. I'm going to revive this thread every time someone misuses this word. We'll see if some are willfully misusing it.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

Isolationism | Define Isolationism at Dictionary.com
isolationism - definition of isolationism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Isolationism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
isolationism meaning: meaning of isolationism from Bee English Dictionary
isolationism noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
isolationism - definition of isolationism by Macmillan Dictionary


All of these mention #1 as a requirement, but not #2. Yet again wikipedia proves to be the better reference.

 

[T.Lex]

Or wrong.

 

[88GT]

Isolationism | Define Isolationism at Dictionary.com
isolationism - definition of isolationism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Isolationism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
isolationism meaning: meaning of isolationism from Bee English Dictionary
isolationism noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
isolationism - definition of isolationism by Macmillan Dictionary


All of these mention #1 as a requirement, but not #2. Yet again wikipedia proves to be the better reference.

That would be because protectionism is separate and distinction from isolationism. Wiki asserts something that isn't true. No protectionism has to occur for a state to assume an isolationist stance.

 

[superjoe76]

Align with none, trade with all. Sounds good to me.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Wikipedia - The anarchist's encyclopedia.

 

[eatsnopaste]

ohhhh you're name calling again! I'm tell'in

 

[Westside]

Wikipedia - The anarchist's encyclopedia.

 

[rambone]

These 7 definitions seem to assert the same thing that I posted. A country must cut off economic relationships (aka trade) in order to enter into isolationism.

Isolationism | Define Isolationism at Dictionary.com

the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.

isolationism - definition of isolationism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

A national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries.

Isolationism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations

isolationism meaning: meaning of isolationism from Bee English Dictionary

a policy of nonparticipation in international economic and political relations

isolationism noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus -

the political principle or practice of showing interest only in your own country and not being involved in international activities

International activities = trade

Cambridge Dictionary Online

the political principle or practice of showing interest only in your own country and not being involved in international activities

International activities = trade

isolationism - definition of isolationism by Macmillan Dictionary

a country’s policy of not having political or economic relationships with other countries

 

[rambone]

An example of actual isolationism

Look to Feudal Japan for an example of isolationism. The Shogun rulers of Japan didn't want Christianity taking hold in their country. They cut Japan off from the world. They expelled foreigners, traders, and missionaries, and refused to accept trade, with few exceptions. They were real isolationists.

Europeans and colonists during the same period were busy with a great deal of trans-Atlantic trade.

 

[Bond 281]

These 7 definitions seem to assert the same thing that I posted. A country must cut off economic relationships (aka trade) in order to enter into isolationism.


the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.

A national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries.

a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations

a policy of nonparticipation in international economic and political relations

the political principle or practice of showing interest only in your own country and not being involved in international activities

International activities = trade

the political principle or practice of showing interest only in your own country and not being involved in international activities

International activities = trade

a country’s policy of not having political or economic relationships with other countries

The fact that Isolationism involves protectionism isn't up for debate, it's a simple fact, regardless of what Semperfi, Badwolf, and 88 would like to think. But way to go for not reading your own links, or jumping on the hater bandwagon without bothering to read what material is supposedly proving rambone wrong. Thanks for playing, try again next time.

 

[steveh_131]

Some famous "isolationists"():

The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

George Washington, Farewell Address

peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none;

Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address

[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. [/FONT][FONT=Times,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman] The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman][America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice. [/FONT]

John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives

[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Our ancestors all came here to isolate themselves from the social burdens and inherited errors of the old world.... When the others are crushed under the burden of militarism, who would not be isolated in peace and industry? When the others are all struggling under debt and taxes, who would not be isolated in the enjoyment of his own earnings for the benefit of his own family?[/FONT]

William Graham Sumner

What a bunch of 'barking moon bats' and 'loons', right?

 

[T.Lex]

The problem with "isolationism" - in anything other than the historical context, as in feudal Japan - is that it is an idea whose "meaning" depends on context. Like any other political idea/rhetoric, such as "democracy," "deficit reduction," "tax reform," "terrorism," etc., the word reflects all sorts of interwoven ideas that the speaker is glossing over.

That even sets aside the fact that the modern "definition" of "isolationism" in politics can be different things to different people, and is evolving. Look at "neo-isolationism" or "isolationist policies."

What is more important to me is to look past the labels to the pragmatic policies.

labeling = intellectual laziness

 

[badwolf.usmc]

Look to Feudal Japan for an example of isolationism. The Shogun rulers of Japan didn't want Christianity taking hold in their country. They cut Japan off from the world. They expelled foreigners, traders, and missionaries, and refused to accept trade, with few exceptions. They were real isolationists.

Europeans and colonists during the same period were busy with a great deal of trans-Atlantic trade.

Ahh, not completely true. The Edo period in Japanese history was a reaction to perceived, and actual, aggression to Japanese rulers by foreigners. In response to this they eliminated free and open trade with foreigners and limited Dutch & Chinese traders to the island of Dejima. Under the Rangaku system western ideas still got into the country, which is the reason why during the Meiji Restoration Japan was able to modernize and westernize so quickly. They were not cut off from the world, they controlled what they accepted.


Also, do you want to get into specific wording?

 

[rambone]

Ahh, not completely true. The Edo period in Japanese history was a reaction to perceived, and actual, aggression to Japanese rulers by foreigners. In response to this they eliminated free and open trade with foreigners and limited Dutch & Chinese traders to the island of Dejima. Under the Rangaku system western ideas still got into the country, which is the reason why during the Meiji Restoration Japan was able to modernize and westernize so quickly. They were not cut off from the world, they controlled what they accepted.

You are reaching for straws. Whether the Japanese lords were effective at 100% cultural isolation is irrelevant. They practiced Protectionism and Non-interventionism.

By any of your definitions they were Isolationist.

 

[steveh_131]

Ahh, not completely true. The Edo period in Japanese history was a reaction to perceived, and actual, aggression to Japanese rulers by foreigners. In response to this they eliminated free and open trade with foreigners and limited Dutch & Chinese traders to the island of Dejima. Under the Rangaku system western ideas still got into the country, which is the reason why during the Meiji Restoration Japan was able to modernize and westernize so quickly. They were not cut off from the world, they controlled what they accepted.

So feudal Japan was not isolationist.

But Ron Paul's policies are.

 

[nate1865]

The word means exactly what we think it means.

This is the same thing the political left does with their hard-to-sell political ideologies.

 

[cobber]

The broad definition of isolationism I'm seeing here combines politics with economics. Politics is the exclusive domain of the central government, but relatively few governments also exclusively control trade. It is pretty clear to me that dictionary compilers notwithstanding, isolationism is a political concept.

There have been plenty of isolationist governments that pursued some international trade; others did almost no trade.

You would be hard pressed to find an autarkic government anywhere in the world, at least in the present day. Foreign trade of some sort is a practical necessity for any industrialized economy.

If for the sake of argument you want to say that isolationism requires an absolute belief in political and economic exclusion, you're free to do so, but that isn't the sense in which most people use it.

In the Cold War both the US and USSR used to champion "freedom", meaning? (Of course the Soviets were wrong, but they debased the word for rhetorical use by using it in a preposterous fashion.)

 

[Bond 281]

The broad definition of isolationism I'm seeing here combines politics with economics. Politics is the exclusive domain of the central government, but relatively few governments also exclusively control trade. It is pretty clear to me that dictionary compilers notwithstanding, isolationism is a political concept.

There have been plenty of isolationist governments that pursued some international trade; others did almost no trade.

You would be hard pressed to find an autarkic government anywhere in the world, at least in the present day. Foreign trade of some sort is a practical necessity for any industrialized economy.

If for the sake of argument you want to say that isolationism requires an absolute belief in political and economic exclusion, you're free to do so, but that isn't the sense in which most people use it.

In the Cold War both the US and USSR used to champion "freedom", meaning? (Of course the Soviets were wrong, but they debased the word for rhetorical use by using it in a preposterous fashion.)

Are you suggesting that a person who advocates zero restriction on trade could be considered an isolationist? It would seem to me that to earn that moniker one would have to want to implement trade restrictions on a fairly large degree. There are certainly degrees of protectionism, but some degree is necessary to be called an isolationist. If there is absolutely zero protectionism in a person's stance, there is absolutely no way the term isolationist applies.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a person would have to be on par with feudal Japan to be isolationist, but trying to stick the term to Ron Paul (since we all know who this is about) when he believes in no protectionism at all is extreme intellectual dishonesty at best. Try to mince words all you want, but there's no way calling him an isolationist has any reasonable application or merit.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

You are reaching for straws. Whether the Japanese lords were effective at 100% cultural isolation is irrelevant. They practiced Protectionism and Non-interventionism.

By any of your definitions they were Isolationist.

You are the one who brought up the example, don't complain when it backfires on you.

Currently Switzerland practices Non-intervention, but they also have trade tariffs, which is an example provided in your link of Protectionism. So by the definition you provided, they are currently Isolationist.

New Zealand, Sweden & Finland also fit this definition.


Also, i noticed on your link for Isolationist, the definition they give for protectionism is wrong. It says "There should be legal barriers to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states", while the link to Protectionism clearly states it is an economic policy.

Lastly, the Japanese Lords weren't trying for 100% cultural isolation, but controlled interaction. Japan has a long history of interaction with Korea, China and the island peoples to the south. There were even groups of Samurai mercenaries that worked in South East Asia.