It looks like the gun bills are going to die if we don't DO something

[Captain Bligh]

What I have heard from the statehouse is that they are doing the budget this legislative session and little else. I suppose people introducing bills have heard the same thing.

 

[SSGSAD]

National Association for Gun Rights - Indiana Petition

Just signed pettion .....

 

[CathyInBlue]

One session per year? (modulo "special" sessions) Or do they ever meet later in the year?

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I met Mr. Lucas today at the 1500 at the INGO booth. Even though traffic was slower, we have many stopping buy to buy gear and c h i t-chat. So we didn't chat very long. He asked about flashlights, and if any INGO advertisers offered them. Then we discussed A&A Optics, and I told him where to find them.
Only after the usual banter did he mention his name, and I still didn't remember exactly who he was at first. A light switch flipped, and I thanked him for the bill which repealed guns on school property, mentioning that my wife was a school teacher, and could now legally carry on her commute to and from work.

We did not get to chat long, but we did talk briefly on the current session, and trying to get heard. I assured him that I write my reps often, and that we trey to be active and let our opinions be known...

 

[Redhorse]

I fully support the idea of writing to encourage him to hear the bills and bring them for a vote, hopefully with the end in mind of them being passed into law. I will be writing him when I get home to encourage this. Do not, however, think that you can "make" him do anything he is not prepared to do. Of special note, make sure that any correspondence is polite and civil. He is under no obligation to hear any bill, and attempting to bully or force him to do so... well, think how you would react if someone wanted you to do something and went about it by ordering you to do so. I know my first reaction is to dig in my heels and tell the person just exactly how much sand they can pound.

I don't hold much hope that he will change his mind, but my notes to him will not indicate that belief. Regardless, as I said, I *will* be writing to request he do so.

Who's with me?

Blessings,
Bill

When I say "make", I mean take the effort to have our voices (i.e. writing and calling) heard.

I also am with you and have already emailed and plan to write.

 

[Redhorse]

National Association for Gun Rights - Indiana Petition

Of course they only bring attention to HB1144 because it brings about the...wait for it.. amazing Constitutional Carry but does nothing to allow the right to carry on campus like HB1143. Of course they completely ignore campus carry. These major gun rights groups always ignore college students. I'm sorry but that makes me reluctant to sign a petition for them when they won't support my self-defense rights while on campus with just as much effort.

 

[Redhorse]

Well, Darmody isn't from my District, but I'll send him off a letter, anyway.

If we're only picking one bill to focus on, it probably shouldn't be campus carry. They're all important, but campus carry doesn't benefit as wide of a gun-owning audience as the other proposed bills. Constitutional carry, or something else, perhaps.

I'm sorry but that's not fair to college students who are defenseless everyday. A girl just got raped on IU's campus last week; we are not immune to crime. I respect your position, but it's not that hard whatsoever for a representative, or senator, to add a campus carry amendment to HB1144.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'm sorry but that's not fair to college students who are defenseless everyday. A girl just got raped on IU's campus last week; we are not immune to crime. I respect your position, but it's not that hard whatsoever for a representative, or senator, to add a campus carry amendment to HB1144.

"Fair is where you go to get an "elephant ear" and a fried Snickers bar." (sorry, had to be said.)

It's not a matter of fair, Redhorse. ModernGunner and I don't agree a lot, but his rationale was correct. We want to benefit the most people. Given his rationale that we're only picking one, it's not "fair" to everyone who can already carry there and would derive no benefit from a campus carry law. That's not to say that I agree we should only pick one. For that matter, it seems obvious to me that Mr. Lucas is in agreement as well, as he introduced multiple bills.

Adding a campus carry amendment to a bill is not physically difficult, no, but it runs the risk of both proposals being scuttled together, which I would guess is why Mr. Lucas introduced them separately.

One other point: You are not immune to crime, no. You are also only defenseless by choice. You gotta be alive to be expelled or suspended. Concealed means concealed. If I was that concerned about it, one of my considerations would be a SmartCarry/Thunderwear-kind of thing. Considering that I'm not advising you to break any laws, I would suggest you look both of them up and see which suits your needs better.

Oh... and the rapist last week? He deserved to be memorialized.... Personally, I think she should be wearing his b**ls as earrings.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Compatriot G]

Of course they only bring attention to HB1144 because it brings about the...wait for it.. amazing Constitutional Carry but does nothing to allow the right to carry on campus like HB1143. Of course they completely ignore campus carry. These major gun rights groups always ignore college students. I'm sorry but that makes me reluctant to sign a petition for them when they won't support my self-defense rights while on campus with just as much effort.

BOR has already stated it, but it isn't illegal to carry on campus. My daughter just graduated from a public university in Muncie, Indiana. From what I have observed over the last 4.5 years and heard from my daughter, it shouldn't be too difficult to carry concealed and not be noticed. Maxpedition makes some very nice bags with hidden pockets for firearms. Just adjusting your clothing style can conceal a lot of firearm. I have been on campus, more than once, while carrying a Glock 21 in a Serpa holster. I was wearing a plaid shirt over it and nobody noticed. I attended graduation with a PPK in a pocket holster because I was in dress clothes. Once again, nobody noticed.

 

[Bill of Rights]

BOR has already stated it, but it isn't illegal to carry on campus. My daughter just graduated from a public university in Muncie, Indiana. From what I have observed over the last 4.5 years and heard from my daughter, it shouldn't be too difficult to carry concealed and not be noticed. Maxpedition makes some very nice bags with hidden pockets for firearms. Just adjusting your clothing style can conceal a lot of firearm. I have been on campus, more than once, while carrying a Glock 21 in a Serpa holster. I was wearing a plaid shirt over it and nobody noticed. I attended graduation with a PPK in a pocket holster because I was in dress clothes. Once again, nobody noticed.

A fair point, though, is that you as a parent had no fears of consequences. The worst they could do to you would have been ask you to leave. As a student or employee, much more is at stake (though still not one's life!)

A necessary corollary to "concealed means concealed" here, if you fall into those groups and choose to carry is that you shut your baconhole. No one, and I mean NO ONE on campus or with access to campus needs to be told that you're armed any more than they need to know what color underwear you're wearing that day or how much money you make or have in the bank.

It. Is. None. Of. Their. Business.

If someone wants to search, they need a warrant. If they want to try to force you, just shut up. Cite the Fifth and if possible, just leave.

Of course, none of that is an issue if they have no reason to suspect you're carrying.

This is all stating the obvious, but it's still all fact. Carry if you choose to, just don't make it known. Not here, not in class, nowhere. After the fact, once you graduate, that's another matter, but not while they can still hurt you.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[mbills2223]

Can this be cross posted in some other forums for visibility?

 

[Redhorse]

"Fair is where you go to get an "elephant ear" and a fried Snickers bar." (sorry, had to be said.)

It's not a matter of fair, Redhorse. ModernGunner and I don't agree a lot, but his rationale was correct. We want to benefit the most people. Given his rationale that we're only picking one, it's not "fair" to everyone who can already carry there and would derive no benefit from a campus carry law. That's not to say that I agree we should only pick one. For that matter, it seems obvious to me that Mr. Lucas is in agreement as well, as he introduced multiple bills.

Adding a campus carry amendment to a bill is not physically difficult, no, but it runs the risk of both proposals being scuttled together, which I would guess is why Mr. Lucas introduced them separately.

One other point: You are not immune to crime, no. You are also only defenseless by choice. You gotta be alive to be expelled or suspended. Concealed means concealed. If I was that concerned about it, one of my considerations would be a SmartCarry/Thunderwear-kind of thing. Considering that I'm not advising you to break any laws, I would suggest you look both of them up and see which suits your needs better.

Oh... and the rapist last week? He deserved to be memorialized.... Personally, I think she should be wearing his b**ls as earrings.

Blessings,
Bill

Well I will concede you're right but I just want you guys to bear in mind that IUPUI (an example, not my current school of study) is around a pretty bad part of indy. I wish you guys would try to understand the pressures of not getting expelled for something like carrying a gun. It's honestly a difficult dissection to make; risk one's life or risk one's future?

It's just really hard for a college student in my position to agree that one bill is more important than another. I guess that just comes with age.

 

[bwframe]

Well I will concede you're right but I just want you guys to bear in mind that IUPUI (an example, not my current school of study) is around a pretty bad part of indy. I wish you guys would try to understand the pressures of not getting expelled for something like carrying a gun. It's honestly a difficult dissection to make; risk one's life or risk one's future?

It's just really hard for a college student in my position to agree that one bill is more important than another. I guess that just comes with age.

I stated up-thread that I believed campus carry would be a lot easier to get approved then the can-o-worms that is constitutional carry. It would also be a good first step to a progression of regular gun bills getting a look and approval.

Regardless of what happens this session, you need to be getting your game together for the next session. We need to be hearing from you and your organized group about proposed laws well in advance so we may rattle our reps and encourage others to do so.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well I will concede you're right but I just want you guys to bear in mind that IUPUI (an example, not my current school of study) is around a pretty bad part of indy. I wish you guys would try to understand the pressures of not getting expelled for something like carrying a gun. It's honestly a difficult dissection to make; risk one's life or risk one's future?

It's just really hard for a college student in my position to agree that one bill is more important than another. I guess that just comes with age.

Heh. Well...keep in mind that age is not a barrier to college. I've been a medic for (almost certainly) more years than you've been alive, but I only got my degree in the field about 8 years ago, so it's not something from which we're all so far removed. FWIW, I can say I *do* understand, very well, from whence you speak. It's a matter of priorities, and each person has to set theirs.

A long time back, bwframe posted something after he was on a cruise, if I remember correctly, that has stuck with me... I can't quote him exactly, as I don't know where the post was, but in essence: You are never fully disarmed. Look around you. Your mind is the weapon. Is there a chair you can break an arm or leg off of? Have you a flashlight in your pocket? (esrice would follow that question with either "good for you" or "why the hell not?"!) With a bit of training and practice, you can turn almost anything into a tool you can use. With some preparedness, there are many tools available. Got a laptop? Know those cables that are made to lock into the security slot on them?

I know, it's not ideal. You'd like to have your gun on you. I can't fault that at all. You'd like to have it and not be risking your college career and your future job prospects. I'm there. I can wrap my head around the idea very easily. But if you can't have the one, then da*nit, man, find yourself an alternative and keep your situational awareness up.

There will be times you can't have your gun. That's unavoidable. It's a scary feeling to think you have no options. It's my hope that this post, bringing up one he made, will help you not feel so scared or out of control, in a situation where others are telling you what to do.

I'll leave you with a final quote for the night, from none other than one Samuel Langhorn Clemens, aka Mark Twain, who said, "Never let your schooling interfere with your education." Part of what you learn in college is to not let others make your decisions for you. The law is silent, so you just have to decide if your thinking, rational brain or your admittedly-faulty crystal ball will call the shots on how you will respond in a situation that will call for deadly force.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Redhorse]

I stated up-thread that I believed campus carry would be a lot easier to get approved then the can-o-worms that is constitutional carry. It would also be a good first step to a progression of regular gun bills getting a look and approval.

Regardless of what happens this session, you need to be getting your game together for the next session. We need to be hearing from you and your organized group about proposed laws well in advance so we may rattle our reps and encourage others to do so.

We got the news out as soon as Rep. Lucas told us. We can only move as fast as the information comes down the pipes.

Heh. Well...keep in mind that age is not a barrier to college. I've been a medic for (almost certainly) more years than you've been alive, but I only got my degree in the field about 8 years ago, so it's not something from which we're all so far removed. FWIW, I can say I *do* understand, very well, from whence you speak. It's a matter of priorities, and each person has to set theirs.

A long time back, bwframe posted something after he was on a cruise, if I remember correctly, that has stuck with me... I can't quote him exactly, as I don't know where the post was, but in essence: You are never fully disarmed. Look around you. Your mind is the weapon. Is there a chair you can break an arm or leg off of? Have you a flashlight in your pocket? (esrice would follow that question with either "good for you" or "why the hell not?"!) With a bit of training and practice, you can turn almost anything into a tool you can use. With some preparedness, there are many tools available. Got a laptop? Know those cables that are made to lock into the security slot on them?

I know, it's not ideal. You'd like to have your gun on you. I can't fault that at all. You'd like to have it and not be risking your college career and your future job prospects. I'm there. I can wrap my head around the idea very easily. But if you can't have the one, then da*nit, man, find yourself an alternative and keep your situational awareness up.

There will be times you can't have your gun. That's unavoidable. It's a scary feeling to think you have no options. It's my hope that this post, bringing up one he made, will help you not feel so scared or out of control, in a situation where others are telling you what to do.

I'll leave you with a final quote for the night, from none other than one Samuel Langhorn Clemens, aka Mark Twain, who said, "Never let your schooling interfere with your education." Part of what you learn in college is to not let others make your decisions for you. The law is silent, so you just have to decide if your thinking, rational brain or your admittedly-faulty crystal ball will call the shots on how you will respond in a situation that will call for deadly force.

Blessings,
Bill

Attending a non-tradtional college, I understand that age plays no factor in the manner of higher education. What I do understand is that a ban on the right to carry on campus covers all students and faculty of all ages.

 

[bwframe]

We got the news out as soon as Rep. Lucas told us. We can only move as fast as the information comes down the pipes...

How'd you get the news out to who? I haven't heard much about these bills until the last few weeks and then only if I happened on to the thread on my own. No rallying the voting base, calls to action or even links to this or other pertinent threads.

As morbid as it sounds, the Cody Cousins murder anniversary just passed. That would have been a very good example of why campus carry is necessary.

You have to learn to act instead of react, if you want to get things done.

 

[TECKS]

While this is true, these bills were introduced by Rep. Jim Lucas. He has consistently introduced good bills and fought not only tooth and nail but with every other weapon at his disposal short of actual deadly force for their passage. I've watched some of his fights for gEUood bills and heard about others behind closed doors. I know his work, and he has my respect.

Just curious: Have you done anything to improve our ability to lawfully exercise our rights in Indiana?

Blessings,
Bill

This^ we all need to help to make a change

 

[Redhorse]

How'd you get the news out to who? I havn't heard much about these bills until the last few weeks.

As morbid as it sounds, the Cody Cousins murder anniversary just passed. That would have been a very good example of why campus carry is necessary.

You have to learn to act instead of react, if you want to get things done.

I posted here in INGO the day I found out about campus carry. What more would you like me to do?

EDIT: A link to the thread I posted so you can see.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ouse-bill-1143-college-campus-carry-bill.html

 

[bwframe]

I posted here in INGO the day I found out about campus carry. What more would you like me to do?

EDIT: A link to the thread I posted so you can see.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ouse-bill-1143-college-campus-carry-bill.html

Just keep doing what you have been. We'll talk about again next year around this time.

 

[Lebowski]

Y'all should weigh in on my suggestion made for INGO here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...dea-stemmed-recent-pro-gun-bills-indiana.html

INGO has over 37,000 members. It seems like an easy-to-follow write up explaining these bills, what they are, and how to express your support for them to representatives would be beneficial and likely well received if emailed to the member base. Imagine even 1/3rd of those members took 5 minutes to pick up a phone or send off an email. Wouldn't hurt.