It's not a "gun show loophole"

[jwh20]

I'm still looking for the internet sites he keep talking about where you can buy guns without a background check. If anyone knows the URL, please share.

 

[ajeandy]

I'm still looking for the internet sites he keep talking about where you can buy guns without a background check. If anyone knows the URL, please share.

Apparently in.gov

 

[pudly]

or atf.gov or state.gov

 

[chipbennett]

Except a legal action is not a ****ing loophole.

To someone who holds the constitution in such disregard that he considers it a list of "negative" rights for the government, legal actions by citizens are very much "loopholes."

 

[chipbennett]

I was speaking with some people the other day and it occurred to me that there really is a "loophole". Bare with me.

A gun show brings all the "clingers" and those looking to buy right? So it's kinda like free advertising in that you reach a huge audience. If I were a bad guy I know I can go there and buy a gun off of the next guy in front of me. No checks, just me and him right? Ok, so to prevent it, and head off the asshats in Washington, all we need is a self governing system that makes them shut up.

You enter the show, your personal carry or the baby killing machine you brought to sell to the next school shooter gets a red zip tie through the action. You may leave with what you brung. If you want to sell during the show, privately, you MUST see a dealer who can perform a background check for a fee. Let the dealers compete. At that point you get a green zip tie through the action. You may only leave with what you brought, red tie and accounted for, or a green tie meaning a dealer cleared you.

No need to worry about private sales away from gun shows as the "advertising" is minimal.

Will it work? HELL NO!

Will it force them to say that is really not the problem and go off in another direction? Yes.

discuss...

Some gun shows already require all sales to go through an FFL. If it is the private entity setting the rule, I have no problem with it - free market, and all.

But criminals never have used gun shows to acquire firearms. Maybe they're allergic to the LEO who are always present - or even moreso, all of the armed citizens. That, and purchasing firearms at gun shows requires engaging in commerce at the prevailing market rates, which, while often lower than the rates in brick-and-mortar gun stores, is still considerably higher than the going rates of the black market.

 

[Hjarnett]

Any gun I ever bought at a gun show I had to do a background check just saying

 

[IndyDave1776]

I was speaking with some people the other day and it occurred to me that there really is a "loophole". Bare with me.

A gun show brings all the "clingers" and those looking to buy right? So it's kinda like free advertising in that you reach a huge audience. If I were a bad guy I know I can go there and buy a gun off of the next guy in front of me. No checks, just me and him right? Ok, so to prevent it, and head off the asshats in Washington, all we need is a self governing system that makes them shut up.

You enter the show, your personal carry or the baby killing machine you brought to sell to the next school shooter gets a red zip tie through the action. You may leave with what you brung. If you want to sell during the show, privately, you MUST see a dealer who can perform a background check for a fee. Let the dealers compete. At that point you get a green zip tie through the action. You may only leave with what you brought, red tie and accounted for, or a green tie meaning a dealer cleared you.

No need to worry about private sales away from gun shows as the "advertising" is minimal.

Will it work? HELL NO!

Will it force them to say that is really not the problem and go off in another direction? Yes.

discuss...

First, I am approaching this as an exercise in speculation rather than an endorsement on your part based on that last statement.

The first problem I see is that the premise is flawed so far as the other side is not interested in solving a particular problem, but rather capitulation on the installment plan, which is what has been sold to us as 'compromise' for decades, even though it really is NOT compromise, but, again, capitulation on the installment plan.

Second, it cannot work without a definitive record of what you walk in with and what you walk out with, which generates a paper trail which can be used for purpose you would not approve or distributed to people you may not approve.

Third, the requirement of paying any rent to exercise a right is not acceptable.

Fourth, it will NOT force the other side to admit any such failure. They will simply insist that it is good but not enough and come back for another chunk of our rights sooner rather than later. Again, compromise is not part of the equation with these people. They will accept nothing short of capitulation even if they have to take it in pieces rather than all at once, but they are going to concede nothing.

 

[gdkaiser]

The news tonight showed a ATF agent telling us that Indiana leads the nation in guns that ended up in Chicago , by claiming they were gotten through Lake county gun shows? WTF... it was just more BATF mis information supplied by the AGO as ordered by the King. For the volume of firearms he was talking about, that would mean that Lake county would have a gun show every week end, the size of the 1500 at multiple sites, lake county is only guilty of Chicago burglary rings hitting Indiana counties along the state line... ATF stop telling "Fast and Furious" lies! we are not falling for it! and Prez Obama get your facts on the law straight , you can not purchase a firearm from a web dealer, with out it being transfered to a local gun store!, and when you pick it up, you have to pass the NCIC backround verification and fill out the Fed paperwork... and if they are using auction sites for their info, its also required there to transfer to a LGS and go through the same requirements as a local purchase. Just more bull and mis informed retoric from the Obama Administration and his criminal lackies...

 

[BogWalker]

If you can't be trusted with a firearm, you can't be trusted with knives, hammers, or your bare hands. If a felon is so dangerous that giving him a firearm means he'll kill somebody, he shouldn't have been let out of prison in the first place.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If you can't be trusted with a firearm, you can't be trusted with knives, hammers, or your bare hands. If a felon is so dangerous that giving him a firearm means he'll kill somebody, he shouldn't have been let out of prison in the first place.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BogWalker again.

.

 

[SchwansManDan]

They think no civilian should own an assault rifle, they think 2A was for back before we had an army and that arms referred to flintlocks only, and they think that the .gov should regulate all the guns.

I always ask those nutters if the gubbermint should regulate their blog, their e-mail account, or their Facebook posts.

"Huh? What do you mean?"

Well, if you're telling me that the Founding Fathers could not have foreseen today's arms and that the Second Amendment should not apply to anything more modern than a Revolutionary War era musket, then I'll tell YOU that the Founding Fathers could not have foreseen the Internet and that you need to stop sharing those dumbass memes that have no tie to facts and reality. Shut up until you buy a hand-cranked printing press.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Dave,
Not to disagree with the rest of your post, but actually, this part could be done without a record of what guns are involved. You inventory the red zip ties and require they be turned in at the time of departure, with a numbered green tie on the gun. That is, all the guys at the front entry know is that red zip-tie #8675309 was put on a gun. They don't even record that "Tommy" was carrying it, let alone whether it was a handgun or a long gun, to say nothing of caliber. On exit, a young lady (we'll call her Jenny) leaves with a gun that has a green tie on it. She's also carrying the cut zip-tie #8675309.

At least it seems to me that would solve the problem you're speaking of. Feel free to, pardon the pun, shoot holes in my theory.

Blessings,
Bill

...
Second, it cannot work without a definitive record of what you walk in with and what you walk out with, which generates a paper trail which can be used for purpose you would not approve or distributed to people you may not approve.
....

 

[IndyDave1776]

Dave,
Not to disagree with the rest of your post, but actually, this part could be done without a record of what guns are involved. You inventory the red zip ties and require they be turned in at the time of departure, with a numbered green tie on the gun. That is, all the guys at the front entry know is that red zip-tie #8675309 was put on a gun. They don't even record that "Tommy" was carrying it, let alone whether it was a handgun or a long gun, to say nothing of caliber. On exit, a young lady (we'll call her Jenny) leaves with a gun that has a green tie on it. She's also carrying the cut zip-tie #8675309.

At least it seems to me that would solve the problem you're speaking of. Feel free to, pardon the pun, shoot holes in my theory.

Blessings,
Bill

If I walk in with a gun, have it tagged with a red zip tie, and you walk in empty-handed, and I hand you the gun, and you walk out, red zip tie intact, how in the universe are they going to know that you didn't bring the gun in the first place unless they keep some type of record of those bringing guns?

 

[jwh20]

If you can't be trusted with a firearm, you can't be trusted with knives, hammers, or your bare hands. If a felon is so dangerous that giving him a firearm means he'll kill somebody, he shouldn't have been let out of prison in the first place.

^^ +1 on this!!

 

[jwh20]

The news tonight showed a ATF agent telling us that Indiana leads the nation in guns that ended up in Chicago , by claiming they were gotten through Lake county gun shows? WTF... it was just more BATF mis information supplied by the AGO as ordered by the King. For the volume of firearms he was talking about, that would mean that Lake county would have a gun show every week end, the size of the 1500 at multiple sites, lake county is only guilty of Chicago burglary rings hitting Indiana counties along the state line... ATF stop telling "Fast and Furious" lies! we are not falling for it! and Prez Obama get your facts on the law straight , you can not purchase a firearm from a web dealer, with out it being transfered to a local gun store!, and when you pick it up, you have to pass the NCIC backround verification and fill out the Fed paperwork... and if they are using auction sites for their info, its also required there to transfer to a LGS and go through the same requirements as a local purchase. Just more bull and mis informed retoric from the Obama Administration and his criminal lackies...

Yet they "conveniently" omit the fact that EVERY ONE of those alleged Indiana guns got to Chicago ILLEGALLY.

 

[jwh20]

Apparently in.gov

I looked there but still didn't find it. What's the deal? Is there a NICS-free internet gun sales site or not? How could the President of the US go on TV and say there was such a thing if it's not true? There goes all my respect for the man. So much for his legacy!

 

[SSGSAD]

I'll say it again, why do so many, here on INGO, cry about showing LTCH, and In., DL ?????

If you had asked me 20 years ago about this, I might have at first glance thought a background check on private sales was a good idea. Once someone (maybe it was myself, i don't remember) walked me through the realities of defining that, of the fact that you transfer guns to family members, etc I see the problems with such a law. I also see that anyone who gives a darn about who they sell their gun to can spot a dicey situation.

I just want to cover my butt .....

I still have in my possession, a receipt from Ca., 1980, from a handgun that I sold .....

 

[Bill of Rights]

If I walk in with a gun, have it tagged with a red zip tie, and you walk in empty-handed, and I hand you the gun, and you walk out, red zip tie intact, how in the universe are they going to know that you didn't bring the gun in the first place unless they keep some type of record of those bringing guns?

...annnnnnnd this would be why I asked you to shoot holes in the theory. Brain fart.

 

[IndyDave1776]

...annnnnnnd this would be why I asked you to shoot holes in the theory. Brain fart.

I will have to take ownership of an unfair advantage. I had already taken the time to sort this six ways to Sunday developing my original response, built from the ground up. You had to take that and try to evaluate it thoroughly without the benefit of starting from scratch. You had to start with what someone else had already built and defend that position which seemed to be feasible. This is similar to the way that militarily the invader/attacker always has an advantage over the defender. I only had to come up with one way to beat the system where you had to try to balance an entire system that you did not conceive into working correctly.