J frame internal locks

[wesnellans]

Okay, INGO, need some expert advice here. I'm going to pick up another J frame Saturday, and I'm torn. I really like the idea (on paper, anyway) of the shrouded hammer airweight. These aren't offered in a "no-lock" configuration these days, and I HATE the idea of internal locks.

I've watched a few videos about removing the "guts" of the internal lock. I THINK removing said guts is within my skillset. My concern is this - is there ANY way, once removing the lock guts, that the remaining lock face pieces can cause an issue? I have a nagging doubt about going this way and am very much tempted to go with the no-lock version just to avoid any possible failure point (in my mind), but I'm liking the idea of the shrouded hammer model over the DAO quite a bit. Then there's the "legal ramifications" argument against modification of "safety" devices.....

Anyone with experience that can throw some advice my way?

Thanks!

 

[Archer]

If you're not comfortable doing it, any gunsmith worth his salt can remove the internal locking system with no issues. All my S&Ws are pre-lock, so I haven't had it done personally, but I know a few people who have had it done and as far as I know they haven't had any issues.

 

[Hopper]

YouTube can step you through this. I watched a video or two before installing the Apex Kit in my 640 J-Frame, and even though I love to tinker, it truly was a piece of cake. One thing I would suggest if you remove the internal lock is to get a plug for the hole. If you're going to carry it, and you surely will (that's what a J-Frame is for), you don't want pocket fuzz making its way into the guts of the gun. I left my lock in, though I may remove it at some point too.

FWIW, I thought about an airweight myself, but went with the 640. Though it's extremely rare that I'll put much 357 through it (I've done it once, it is manageable, and I have a fairly slim build), and the 640 is a little heavier than the airweight, I like the idea that it's made to take that kind of pressure. It will take an awfully long time for 38 +P to wear it down.

Lastly, post pics please, or at least before/after shots of your work if you choose to remove the lock!

 

[kawtech87]

I recently picked up a J-frame 640 Pro (no lock) from Bradis. While I was there, they had an M&P 340 no lock for about the same price. It was a hard choice but I went with the 640 for a little extra weight. The 340 was still there last time I was in there, about 2 weeks ago now. If you are uncomfortable with removing the lock or just don't want to fool with it I'd get a no lock model and be done with it.

Love my 640 Pro btw. It handles .357 like a champ and recoil is surprisingly mild, to me anyway it feels like a subcompact .45 recoil wise. I'm not very good with a DAO trigger... yet. But it gives me an excuse to practice DA shooting.

 

[jzwhts]

Alright, here it goes...... I have a 438 with the lock and carry it all the time. I have shot it a bunch and no troubles. The lock does not bother me, I just never use it and would have a hard time finding the key for it. My 2 pennies!!

 

[wesnellans]

I recently picked up a J-frame 640 Pro (no lock) from Bradis.

Oh, that's the Holy Grail one for me. You dog.

Alright, here it goes...... I have a 438 with the lock and carry it all the time. I have shot it a bunch and no troubles. The lock does not bother me, I just never use it and would have a hard time finding the key for it. My 2 pennies!!

Hey, I admit the chances are slim it will engage under recoil (or dropping, from what I've read). BUT - I subscribe the theory of Murphy. Which is why I'm even leery of trying to remove the lock (and leave the keyhole thing still in place, like I saw on YT) because I'm not certain it won't cause its own issues.

*sigh*. Liked the idea of SA when I wanted it... Maybe I'll have to console myself with the 640 Pro....

 

[Ricnzak]

There used to be a guy on the S&W forum that sold a stainless plug. I've had a 638 for years and never had a problem with mine. I have often read about the chance of a problem with the lock happening but have never saw anyone posting a first hand experience.

 

[WebHobbit]

YouTube can step you through this. I watched a video or two before installing the Apex Kit in my 640 J-Frame, and even though I love to tinker, it truly was a piece of cake. One thing I would suggest if you remove the internal lock is to get a plug for the hole. If you're going to carry it, and you surely will (that's what a J-Frame is for), you don't want pocket fuzz making its way into the guts of the gun. I left my lock in, though I may remove it at some point too.

FWIW, I thought about an airweight myself, but went with the 640. Though it's extremely rare that I'll put much 357 through it (I've done it once, it is manageable, and I have a fairly slim build), and the 640 is a little heavier than the airweight, I like the idea that it's made to take that kind of pressure. It will take an awfully long time for 38 +P to wear it down.

Lastly, post pics please, or at least before/after shots of your work if you choose to remove the lock!

According to Smith & Wesson's service department it's NOT designed to handle .357 pressure...not really. See here for my own tale of woe and why I will never buy another S&W revolver (and probably not another S&W period):

S&W says "J-Frame 357 is for carry not shooting"! - THR

 

[derrickgoins]

Post was a while back but here's where a friend of mine got his plug after removing the internal lock

https://www.facebook.com/WISCONSINUSACONCEALEDCARRYOPTIONS/posts/243602289041662

 

[Hopper]

According to Smith & Wesson's service department it's NOT designed to handle .357 pressure...not really. See here for my own tale of woe and why I will never buy another S&W revolver (and probably not another S&W period):

S&W says "J-Frame 357 is for carry not shooting"! - THR

UGH. I'm really not built big enough to put many 357 loads through my 640 anyway, and I'd say I put less than 20 rounds through it, the rest being 38's. But yeah, really good to read this, thanks for passing it along. It was manageable when I did it, but not enjoyable.

Comments in that thread echo what I've heard and read before. If you want to spit out 357 rounds on a regular basis, a Ruger will hold up better. Smiths, with just a little bit of work, have better triggers, but don't handle a steady diet of hot loads as well over the long haul. I'd tend to agree with this. I have a GP100 Match Champion that I think could survive a house fire, and still shoot lights-out afterwards. And it soaks up 357 recoil really, really well. But I don't know that any amount of work or polishing will make that trigger as sweet as my New Model 66. After 15 minutes of installing a Wilson Combat spring kit with the 13# trigger return spring, the NM 66 has the most amazing trigger of anything I own.

Don't get me started on S&W's "canted barrel" issues. Not cool. My 640 was clocked when I got it, totally my fault for not realizing this at the time of purchase. Smith repaired it under warranty, but I've read that hot load shooting could cause the barrel to torque again. Time will tell.

 

[45fan]

I have a 442 that has the internal lock in it. Removing it never really crossed my mind. It has several hundred target loads through it, and no less than 2-300 +p 38 special loads through it, and the lock has never moved.

As for the J-frame 357s, well, if your a masochist enough to shoot one out, have at it. Ive sent a few cylinders through little 357s, and will stick with the +p 38 special. The last time was an LCR, and the closest thing I could compare that experience to would be trying to catch a baseball bare handed, from a MLB pitcher.

 

[tbhausen]

The ******* Hole is something I plan to stay far, far away from.

 

[WebHobbit]

It really IS an abomination. People are still mad at Bill Ruger over the magazine BS but give S&W a pass? That's CRAZY when they took a PERFECT design and drilled a worthless unneeded HOLE IN THE SIDE of it!

 

[wesnellans]

Yeah, I'm pretty much over the idea of getting a lock model and removing the lock at this stage. If only Smith still offered the exposed and shrouded models without lock in the Airweights like theY do in the 442/642s...

I really thought long and hard about the SP101, WH. Just bigger and heavier than my normal carry mode (pocket) will really allow for, I'm afraid.

Dunno. On one hand, the 642 no lock is on special at Midwest for $360. On the other hand, I wonder what I can get them down to on a full steel gun......