Just took this course this weekend. Video

[the1kidd03]

wow i did not say we never do ..... ....there are some training we do not and some real life we do not..........


older picture some things are just dangerous live with it ......

OH man there's not much I wouldn't do to get a few of those bricks in my personal inventory ... just in case

 

[Steve MI]

Thanx Steve. "To each his own" is exactly right. It's what those men in the pictures you posted were fighting for. I'm sure many wear "clears" as well. I would. But, it's my choice.
Thanx.

it is and others even LE world due to other issue at least even clear lens are a must for most things and operations i used to get laughed at until one guy was spit in the eyes

or another took a shotgun blast to the face

another that took a blast through the car windshield there are to many variables in life my eyes aren't one of them

 

[the1kidd03]

having trained with and taught many
i can tell you this a lot of SF and more do wear them
Not only to protect them but to also protect from fragments and other issues in some environments i asked some guys from a a group that were in class they said they were never without them one small issue can blow an entire op do to crap getting in there eyes

to each is own i guess

+100....for moto pic of an MSOR boy

 

[Steve MI]

and as the saying goes, because some things are dangerous doesn't mean they have to be

 

[bwframe]

I don't mind eyes and ears, I don't mind 360 gun ranges, I don't know how many times a muzzle was in the face of the camera man...

Ditto! You want to be stupid about your own safety, it's your choice. You want to be stupid about my safety, different story.

 

[Fenway]

:06 do the participants have tape over their sights?

 

[Chaz]

Yup.

 

[fireblade]

well at least tactics & training section busy tonight here i thought only the politics section can get heated

 

[the1kidd03]

Good for you. Lots of genuine "operators" disagree with you. The example Frank cited was Henk Iverson. If you're an operator, you should know him by his reputation within that community.

not really...I'm quite familiar with said "community" and I've never heard of the guy....and after all this hype about him I scoped his site out, which hasn't been updated in like 2-3 years (at least by the gallery)...and the only 3 albums of military units were not spec-ops units

 

[the1kidd03]

Hmm, hate to argue with you but my son's in BCT (graduates next week) and they are ALL issued eye protection with both clear and tinted lenses, and those who need glasses have prescription inserts. They were them for ALL training activities.

As far as what operator's use, I have a co-worker who who just went from active to reserve and will get his opinion on the subject in the morning.

Either way, there is a difference in training and combat. Eye/ear protection in training is just common sense, you gain NOTHING by not using them.

Sure, we won't have them should we have to draw in a "situation", but of the few thousand rounds I put downrange in competition or training this year, my eyes/ears will be protected.

basic infantry units ALL wear eye pro in training that I've ever seen....it is especially required in all entry level training...........once at a unit and continuing with his training, he will likely wear eye pro most of the time...but ear pro, not such a big deal....because most unit leaders will jump down there throats for if they were to try to wear it in the field

while we do try to wear eye pro in the field as much as possible, it is not always possible....in fairly cold weather if you do anything remotely strenuous they can fog up and so I almost never war them in the cold....just one example from my experience, but merely pointing out that eye pro is recommended and most try to use it whenever possible, but it's not always........ear pro is pretty much discretionary in training...and forbidden in actual operations (unless you count comms)

 

[fireblade]

look there just a bunch of stupid idiot soldiers not wearing eye protection

 

[the1kidd03]

look there just a bunch of stupid idiot soldiers not wearing eye protection

I get the purple, but I do question the validity of this photo. 1. that uniform hasn't been in service for a number of years in any branch, I would venture to guess about 7 years +/- ......2. last I checked we didn't "issue" AK's, I know a lot of units "train" with them on occasion for familiarity sake but the next thing I notice is that ...that's not a Berreta in the drop leg....looks more like a Sig ? possibly........if anything I would say non-US soldiers at best ?!....oh and their shooting stance, although barely able to see most of them, is very "off" from what typical grunts are taught...they are easily taken off balance in the position presented here

 

[Reaper]

I wonder what the owner/instructor would say if he watched the video??? Has he?

Barrel pointed at the camera man, multiple leg sweeps, drawing weapon before clearing the crowd of bystanders...to name a few. I wouldn't want this video circulated if I was responsible for the men and women in my class. Eyes/Ears, Why wouldn't you wear them.

I guess each instructor sets his own expectations and safety threshold. My expectation of that threshold was broke several times in that video!!!

 

[the1kidd03]

I wonder what the owner/instructor would say if he watched the video??? Has he?

Barrel pointed at the camera man, multiple leg sweeps, drawing weapon before clearing the crowd of bystanders...to name a few. I wouldn't want this video circulated if I was responsible for the men and women in my class. Eyes/Ears, Why wouldn't you wear them.

I guess each instructor sets his own expectations and safety threshold. My expectation of that threshold was broke several times in that video!!!

so if you were carrying in a crowd and someone opened fire, are you going to ask everyone to please step away before reacting??

I understand and agree that everyone does have there own "safety threshold" however you should train for real life situations if you expect to be able to react equivalently in a real life situation

eye pro on a range, of course....are they always viable in real life, absolutely not..........ear pro on a range, really a matter of your choice doesn't need to be required as nobody's going to have to call an ambulence over it.......ear pro in real life, highly doubt it

 

[bwframe]

so if you were carrying in a crowd and someone opened fire, are you going to ask everyone to please step away before reacting??

So, just to be clear, you are saying that the muzzle discipline in the video is acceptable and coincides with your style of training, correct?

 

[Steve MI]

so if you were carrying in a crowd and someone opened fire, are you going to ask everyone to please step away before reacting??

NO there are different Techniques for that that make much more sense and are more applicable to the situations

best way to lose a gun in a crowd is to get it out while people are running and getting the hell out of the way and chaos is ensuing.....

this class is from the videos i watched is terrible again its a theme park from what is shown

There is no follow through, shooting out glass, how fun but i seen guys inhale glass particles when taught improper ttps on this and have to spit blood for month from glass fragments

 

[yotewacker]

The military doesn't care about eye protection. After all, they're not afraid of any lawsuits for negligent acts like the civilian side of things are.

 

[yotewacker]

I get the purple, but I do question the validity of this photo. 1. that uniform hasn't been in service for a number of years in any branch, I would venture to guess about 7 years +/- ......2. last I checked we didn't "issue" AK's, I know a lot of units "train" with them on occasion for familiarity sake but the next thing I notice is that ...that's not a Berreta in the drop leg....looks more like a Sig ? possibly........if anything I would say non-US soldiers at best ?!....oh and their shooting stance, although barely able to see most of them, is very "off" from what typical grunts are taught...they are easily taken off balance in the position presented here

Looks like the photo was taken at Knob Creek in Ky.

 

[the1kidd03]

So, just to be clear, you are saying that the muzzle discipline in the video is acceptable and coincides with your style of training, correct?

not really, agreed I could have worded that whole post better....I'm running on very little sleep today......whether or not it is acceptable to an individual point of view is dependant on their opinion and background....do I think it's a appropriate for a civilian course likely consisting of guys with minimal if any prior training..NO....would I feel comfortable in that class with people operating in such a manner..probably to some extent, but I would further expect an instructor to point out issues to correct for students and build everyone's confidence in each other....at least by requiring certain prereq's......my point was that in a training environment we can over analyze every little detail of everyone's training....it's not something to get panties in a bunch over......I can't count how many times I've been "muzzle swept" in training, or had rounds pass me within a couple feet....but that feeling those rounds pass near me definitely made me take the training more seriously and enacted the physiological changes in me, thus making the training about as real as it gets for only training...and I feel that realism is extraordinarily valuable to a person who has not been in a real life situation...it better prepares them for the "fog" and confusion they will have to endure.....training at such a level should require a certain degree of competance with a firearm and be a requisite for any instructor, hence participants should be able to have more faith in their fellow students and it is also an instructors obligation to build that confidence in his students further prior to engaging in training which could present potentially dangerous movements such as this video.......I hope this makes more sense....

and just to point out, I do believe the guy shooting inside the car had eye pro on...I had to look very closely a couple times but I'm pretty sure I saw a distinct line and glare near his eye as he turned

 

[the1kidd03]

NO there are different Techniques for that that make much more sense and are more applicable to the situations

best way to lose a gun in a crowd is to get it out while people are running and getting the hell out of the way and chaos is ensuing.....

this class is from the videos i watched is terrible again its a theme park from what is shown

There is no follow through, shooting out glass, how fun but i seen guys inhale glass particles when taught improper ttps on this and have to spit blood for month from glass fragments

agreed...in close proximity training, for civilians who have likely not had any prior training...simunition would be the best choice

although, being that guy that stands in one position trying to draw a weapon in a fleeing, panicing crowd makes you stand out like a sore thumb to the likely only ONE person who would not be running (attacker) and thus making you the next feasible target...to conceal your intentions in such a situation one should at least appear to be running in a safe direction to not draw attention to yourself and engage as soon as his attention is not in your general direction (with discretion of course)

and as far as glass goes, the training is a matter of choice....if you felt unsafe firing near glass you can easily say that you don't wish to take part in this event...and instructor has no authority to force you and a GOOD one will leave it at that......I'm more inclined to think that the person shooting inside the car was likely an instructor doing a demonstration....I can't see them allowing 10+ people to shoot through expensive auto glass in up to 10+ vehicles...or taking the time to replace a window in fewer cars for each student...but that just goes to show my other point that we can scrutinize a VIDEO all day long....we don't know the nature of any of it or the intent of each scenario given to the students