Just took this course this weekend. Video

[the1kidd03]

lol

 

[fireblade]

Umm.... I don't think anyone was challenging you.

my apologies then........maybe i understood his comment the wrong way......

 

[HICKMAN]

my apologies then........maybe i understood his comment the wrong way......

either that or one old sarge is f'n with the other

 

[Steve MI]

assumptions....is my pointentirely.......for all we know, the video could have been made by a hiredmarketing agency with NO firearms experience......this is why I say it'simportant to stick to the "tactics" displayed in the video ratherthan the "semantics" of how it was made or the students in it.....sure you can debate their skill level, but what's the point...to substantiate your own "expertise" to a bunch of random people on the internet?....debating the tactics and value of the scenarios they presented would be more efficent use of this thread IMO to better collaborate/develop more effective methods of realistic training

[/COLOR]
so then bring up what was wrong about that particular scenario exactly for discussion, rather than common sense safety issues which most here can identify and understand that these are STUDENTS and not likely as trained as most of us on this forum and each has their own "safety threshold" just as you and I would

I don't question your skills, experience, job, etc....but to point out...
If I told you I was a SEAL would you believe me??? Then why preach to random people on the internet how much experience you have or who you train when it provides no additional credibility to the subject matter at hand with no way to prove it.......there's no need to get frustrated about the discussion..
as far as the crowd point...Ithink I misinterpreted what you were trying to say...I'm sure you're skilled orat least have the common sense in such an event...I was merely aiming topresent a point about training for such a situation (tactic)...apologies for not understanding entirely what you were saying

I think having a training section is important and highly valuable, but it seems to turn into personal choice debates and pissing matches over irrelevant matters (such as military vs civilian vs LE or I have more experience than you) rather than constructive collaboration of experience in order to develop more efficient training methods

No Ego at all, what it is is the instructors duty to make sure all students get good corrective actions i would have stopped at least 5 people in that clip at various times to correct said actions they were doing

we as Inst can get people killed faster by giving them bad info and bad skills and false hope than the better

is what im saying i have no Ego involved in this because i don't what i do have is a vested interest in seeing get good proper training that can save there life not a roller coaster ride for fun.... sorry if this isn't popular

tell me how many of those in the video would be deploying a carbine from there car wearing kit? and what skills were gained from it or the guy using freaking SUl improperly getting out of the car with a handgun sweeping him himself?

there is saying i use often. that i came up with at class last year

"we can teach you the things we would want to be taught but rather we need to teach you the things u need to be learn"

 

[bwframe]

Speaking of ...

....if you haven't walk the walk ....shut the **** up....

...maybe fireblade and the1kidd03 should post up some video of themselves in training. Not saying they might be 12 year old's in mom's basement, but this is the Internet.

Nearly everyone else in this thread, I have either trained with and, or seen video of in training.

I'm talking video, not irrelevant pictures.

 

[fireblade]

you really ...want to go there my friend............i have been very careful with the pictures i post on a public forum and faces for good reason......like i said before meet me at a range would gladly talk to you in person on the subject....

 

[fireblade]

if anything it a excuse to have fun sending rounds down range ...

 

[Shay]

Guys, the lack of eye protection is only one aspect of some sketchy actions shown in the video. This whole "what the high speed MIL types do or don't do" discussion is irreverent. This was not a high speed ninja class.

The glass shooting looks fun, but as someone who has shot a ton of auto glass, I know from experience it makes a huge shower of glass particles inside the car. Watching the guy take a deep breath right after shooting a window made me cringe. Maybe he was told to hold his breath and maybe he just didn't listen. I don't know. But it's not bright to sit inside a car while shooting out windows while breathing normally.

The gun handling seems to have no awareness of muzzle orientation. Students pointed guns at other students, camera men and themselves. The part that makes me wonder is that nobody seemed to be stopping them from doing it or correcting them after they did it.

I agree with Steve that unless there's a 40 foot berm behind those targets, all that supine shooting was sending rounds lord-knows-where. Again, I don't know the range setup so maybe there is a really big berm or maybe there's nothing that direction for 5 miles....

 

[fireblade]

mom says i can go........

 

[bwframe]

you really ...want to go there my friend............i have been very careful with the pictures i post on a public forum and faces for good reason......like i said before meet me at a range would gladly talk to you in person on the subject....

Nope. I have no reason to trust you with my safety. Actually the opposite.

I'll use your words again:

....if you haven't walk the walk ....shut the **** up...

So, show us or...

...shut the **** up...

 

[fireblade]

now you are just trying to start a fight and being disrespectful

 

[bwframe]

now you are just trying to start a fight and being disrespectful

No sir. Whose words are those?

 

[fireblade]

if you want to meet in a INGO event or meet up at a range would more then be happy to show you in person what ever it your ego wants to see................. DD214 video's pictures .....again i am retired now ....a lot of guys in those video and picture are not am sure you can understand thats why i need to be careful what i put on a public forum.........second what do you want to see

 

[Reaper]

My personal point...I saw more things in the video that would discourage me from taking that course than things that would encourage me to take it.

First, (During Training) If someone is running upstream in a crowd and drawing weapon with little or no experience....I would not have them training with live ammo. They broke the crowd and sent rounds down range. One person had their weapon drawn before breaking the crowd, loaded, and pointing back at the the crowd. How could anyone consider this safe practice. Motor mechanics in that exercise were more inmportant than firingthe weapon. Teach responsibility first, responsibility for the civilians around you that you are so vailiantly trying to protect running towards the danger. heading that way is a moved point if you shoot back at those same civilians.

Second, No person should ever be allowed to continue after sweeping themselves or others. Halt the exercise and correct. I know these things can happen, but don't accept them and continue. Teach Teach Teach. Allowing bad habits begets bad habits!!!

Third, I don't wear eyes and ears when hunting, but I use them to train. The people in the class trusted their safety to the authorities associated with this training and expect to leave the training safely. It is an ethical responsibility to keep those in your trust as safe as possible. It's just that simple.

 

[fireblade]

i think almost all your guys comments on there tactics and muzzle orientation, cameraman positioning and berm i agree with i wouldn't recommend the class from what i seen ... in fact this is my first post talking about there tactics i spent all my post talking about safety glasses and ego's my self included........

 

[jdhaines]

a lot of us military high speed types

i am a operator

I wasn't aware that people actually used "high speed" and "operator" in a first person sort of capacity. I had always thought they were just silly terms that civvys used to denote the more elite military units or people with a higher degree of training than normal. First time for me, but maybe I've been hiding under a rock and just missed the other times.

Did these terms originate within "special" teams and then filter out to the civvy world?

</offtopic>

 

[fireblade]

the original title operator was given to those who past selection and OTC-Operator training course now most under JSOC and ODA use it.......its a title

as for high speed its a slang used a lot in the army to describe a troop who taken a hard courses or excel in something or to make fun of ....lol ....like you tripped and fell look at high speed there........both terms started in military and worked it way into civilians from troops getting out of the military.........

 

[VUPDblue]

Speaking of ......maybe fireblade and the1kidd03 should post up some video of themselves in training. Not saying they might be 12 year old's in mom's basement, but this is the Internet.

Nearly everyone else in this thread, I have either trained with and, or seen video of in training.

I'm talking video, not irrelevant pictures.

Bwframe, my self restraint in not commenting in this thread is simply staggering. I'm actually impressing myself and I know you can appreciate that. I miss seeing you on the range, buddy and I hope to change that soon, but I appreciate your activity in this thread...

 

[HICKMAN]

Bwframe, my self restraint in not commenting in this thread is simply staggering. I'm actually impressing myself and I know you can appreciate that. I miss seeing you on the range, buddy and I hope to change that soon, but I appreciate your activity in this thread...

see rule #1

 

[VUPDblue]

lol @ hickman. you too know me maybe too well....