LAPD shoots Armed Man and Hostage

[Expat]

Not sure if this is the appropriate category or not.

The video is on the below site.
LAPD chief: Officers kill a hostage for 1st time in 13 years | Daily Mail Online

Dramatic bodycam footage shows LAPD cops shooting and killing a homeless man and the woman he had taken hostage by holding a knife to her throat. Guillermo Perez, 32, is seen in the video facing the officers while holding onto Elizabeth Tollison outside the Central Lutheran Church in the Van Nuys section of Los Angeles on June 16.
Officers confronting the homeless man then opened fire when he started cutting her neck. Cops fired nearly 20 times and killed both Perez and Tollison.

 

[phylodog]

This is bad. I don't like what I saw on that video at all.

 

[Trigger Time]

Idiots

 

[NHT3]

That is disturbing to say the least. I'll hold my opinion until there's more info but it seemed that more than one officer was shooting?

 

[SMiller]

This is bad. I don't like what I saw on that video at all.

It was a **** show.

 

[churchmouse]

This is bad. I don't like what I saw on that video at all.

Yes. That was not good.

 

[actaeon277]

This must have been the shooting some officers were discussing earlier.
They were not happy about it either.

 

[bgcatty]

This is very upsetting. These stupid cops should all be fired from the force! The perp with the knife was standing all alone without the hostage at one point and the stupid cop with the bean bag firearm does not continue to shoot and take this guy down? Or, why didn’t the cops just shoot with their service weapons when the perp did not yet grab the woman? Seriously? And the idiot cops then just open fire with their service hand guns and expect to not hit the hostage? What were these morons thinking? I’d guess that none of the cops involved trained regularly with their weapons such that they were real marksmen. Remember the recruits in the movie Magnum Force with Clint Eastwood? Yes it was only a movie; but the point was made: practice makes perfect. The hostage’s family will have a field day suing the City of LA for the unnecessary killing of their family member. And you wonder why there are trust issues between the public and the police?

 

[Trigger Time]

Why did the first officer park a mile down the alley and start yelling drop the knife? Then hes telling his partner to stay behind cover (a bush, and a car door are not cover). Then they just **** the dude off by firing rubber bullets at him or whatever. I would have been ok if they would have shot him with a real gun when he didnt comply and drop the knife but continued to walk towards them. Or maybe since there were 2, have one fire a taser and if that didnt work shoot his ass.
I have no idea what police procedure or policy is, except I would think it isnt to kill the hostage by idiocy.
From any ingo Leo's what would your department training have you do in this situation? From the start to the end?

 

[KellyinAvon]

That was disturbing to say the least.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Why did the lady just sit there anyway? Not saying this wasn’t completely ridiculous, but if you’re standing next to a guy with a knife that has cops aimed on, run!

 

[phylodog]

From any ingo Leo's what would your department training have you do in this situation? From the start to the end?

I didn't see any point in the video, prior to the suspect putting the knife to the woman's throat, which would have offered a clearly justifiable use of deadly force. Had they shot and killed him before that there would be cries that he was simply not complying, he wasn't actually threatening to hurt anyone.

The current trend in LE/training is to give a situation like this time and distance. That's a double edged sword however, had the officers simply stood where they were and the suspect continued advancing toward the woman and hurt her or the child they would be heavily criticized. They will now be heavily criticized for advancing and potentially forcing this situation to the conclusion it reached.

Without the woman present I would be willing to criticize their advancing on the guy. With the woman in play I can't fault them. The problem comes in when the bullets started flying. It is extremely difficult to train enough to be prepared for this type of situation and for all we know two of the three officers may have been. At least one of the officers there allowed themselves to be pulled outside of their performance capabilities and it resulted in the death of an innocent person. It's tragic and horrible at every level.

 

[rkwhyte2]

Why did the lady just sit there anyway? Not saying this wasn’t completely ridiculous, but if you’re standing next to a guy with a knife that has cops aimed on, run!

Based on the walker that I observed I'd say she was unable to quickly exit. Overall this is a really bad situation. Makes you wonder what kind of training the LAPD officers get before they turn them loose on the streets.

 

[Trigger Time]

I didn't see any point in the video, prior to the suspect putting the knife to the woman's throat, which would have offered a clearly justifiable use of deadly force. Had they shot and killed him before that there would be cries that he was simply not complying, he wasn't actually threatening to hurt anyone.

The current trend in LE/training is to give a situation like this time and distance. That's a double edged sword however, had the officers simply stood where they were and the suspect continued advancing toward the woman and hurt her or the child they would be heavily criticized. They will now be heavily criticized for advancing and potentially forcing this situation to the conclusion it reached.

Without the woman present I would be willing to criticize their advancing on the guy. With the woman in play I can't fault them. The problem comes in when the bullets started flying. It is extremely difficult to train enough to be prepared for this type of situation and for all we know two of the three officers may have been. At least one of the officers there allowed themselves to be pulled outside of their performance capabilities and it resulted in the death of an innocent person. It's tragic and horrible at every level.

Thank you for your professional insight. A lot more of what I saw especially early on now makes more sense to me. I bet the officer was trying to just stand off and wait but then he saw the woman and pressed.

That's really troubling to me that people with a knife arent taken as seriously for lack of a better term, like people with a gun. I dont mean by you personaly phylo. With your background I'm sure you are well aware of what someone with a knife can do.
Someone can be on you so fast and really mess you up (kill you) before you even know it with a knife. I think the term "dont bring a knife to a gunfight" has really put the police at a unfair disadvantage when it comes to these type situations because of the public opinion and or trial they might face.

 

[croy]

Regardless of facts. Killing a hostage is never good. At that point let it be a stand off.

 

[KLB]

Regardless of facts. Killing a hostage is never good. At that point let it be a stand off.

Not much of a standoff at this point.

Officers confronting the homeless man then opened fire when he started cutting her neck. Cops fired nearly 20 times and killed both Perez and Tollison.

 

[Denny347]

I didn't see any point in the video, prior to the suspect putting the knife to the woman's throat, which would have offered a clearly justifiable use of deadly force. Had they shot and killed him before that there would be cries that he was simply not complying, he wasn't actually threatening to hurt anyone.

The current trend in LE/training is to give a situation like this time and distance. That's a double edged sword however, had the officers simply stood where they were and the suspect continued advancing toward the woman and hurt her or the child they would be heavily criticized. They will now be heavily criticized for advancing and potentially forcing this situation to the conclusion it reached.

Without the woman present I would be willing to criticize their advancing on the guy. With the woman in play I can't fault them. The problem comes in when the bullets started flying. It is extremely difficult to train enough to be prepared for this type of situation and for all we know two of the three officers may have been. At least one of the officers there allowed themselves to be pulled outside of their performance capabilities and it resulted in the death of an innocent person. It's tragic and horrible at every level.

I'm glad I'm not crazy then, my observations mirror yours. However, I have been admonished on other forums for not thinking that deadly force should have been used as soon as the suspect began backing towards the woman. I didn't think it was quite as black and white. Based on the body camera angles from the different officers, it looks like only one had a clear shot at the suspect. That is IF they were capable of making a precise shot under stress.