legal meaning of school function

[poptab]

I may be dense but I just do not understand this. Does it really mean what it says or is 'school function' defined somewhere?

I have been looking and cant find a definition in the code. I may have missed it.

Indiana General Assembly: Legislative Search Results

The reason I am wondering this is because a local school apparently decided to have some kids running around in the park I walk my dog in. I do not know if they are using the park to practice track and field or what. It was 2 buses of kids with all the same shirt.

Is that considered a 'school function'? Does that mean I cant carry in the park when track practice is on? If so that is completely ridiculous and infuriating.

 

[jbombelli]

Welcome to ambiguity. I've asked the same thing about sitting in a McDonalds or other restaurant, when a local grade school class decides to have a field trip there to see how McDonalds works.

Does that make me an insta-felon the moment they come through the door?

 

[revance]

I believe the spirit of the law means to prohibit attending a function. So if you were just sitting at McDs you are not violating the law. However if you went to meet the group to have lunch with your daughter, you are violating the law.

That being said, that is the SPIRIT of the law, it doesn't specify. I would expect any attorney worth a dime could get it interpreted that way. After all, no guns on school property is a strict liability law. They can't possibly apply it to people eating lunch in public who have no possible way to avoid breaking the law. We will never have case law to determine it because no prosecutor is dumb enough to try.

 

[actaeon277]

It means what the lawyers want.
IMHO - school function requires school supervisors, and a commitment such as signing a lease of a park.
But IANAL.

 

[cp009]

Any takers on being the test case?

 

[Sylvain]

Welcome to ambiguity. I've asked the same thing about sitting in a McDonalds or other restaurant, when a local grade school class decides to have a field trip there to see how McDonalds works.

Does that make me an insta-felon the moment they come through the door?

This.

For me if it's a local park also used by people outside the school and not owned by the school or part of the shcool I dont see how it can be school fonction.
In that case you could say that the sidewalk used by the kids to go to school (from their house to the school) is used for school fonctions.

Dont forget that those anti-gun laws are made by stupid people (yes I believe that making it illegal for someone with legal LTCH to carry in a school is stupid) so dont try to understand them.

 

[stephen87]

IANALBIMO, a school function would require the school renting out the facility.

 

[EdC]

The common everyday meaning of "function" as defined by most dictionaries is: "an official or formal social gathering or ceremony."

 

[AndersonIN]

IANALBIMO, a school function would require the school renting out the facility.

Doesn't help much....what if they rent out the party room at a Pizza Hut or Mickey D's??? JUST that room or entire building?

Wording of law still sucks!

 

[revance]

The common everyday meaning of "function" as defined by most dictionaries is: "an official or formal social gathering or ceremony."

Exactly. Any activity or gathering put on by the school or school staff member acting in official capacity. There is no requirement they rent or lease the location as others have said. I think the typical dictionary definition can be used to determine what is or isn't a school function. That part isn't ambiguous.

The ambiguous part is whether being "at" a school function means being on the same premises (McDs) or being part of said function.

If the football team goes out to dinner after a game, that is a school function. There are certain legal liabilities against the school during such activities. There is no question it's a school function. If you go with your child, you are attending, you can't carry. The question is whether you can carry at the pizza parlor when you have nothing to do with that activity. It is my opinion, you aren't at the school function by just eating in the same restaurant or being in the same park.

 

[EdC]

Exactly. Any activity or gathering put on by the school or school staff member acting in official capacity. There is no requirement they rent or lease the location as others have said. I think the typical dictionary definition can be used to determine what is or isn't a school function. That part isn't ambiguous.

The ambiguous part is whether being "at" a school function means being on the same premises (McDs) or being part of said function.

If the football team goes out to dinner after a game, that is a school function. There are certain legal liabilities against the school during such activities. There is no question it's a school function. If you go with your child, you are attending, you can't carry. The question is whether you can carry at the pizza parlor when you have nothing to do with that activity. It is my opinion, you aren't at the school function by just eating in the same restaurant or being in the same park.

Here are the exact words of the statute:

"A person who possesses a firearm . . . in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function . . . commits a Class D felony."

Ind. Code 35-47-9-2 (2)

So it's "in or on property" not at the function.

To use one of your examples (and AndersonIN's), let's say that after practice a coach tells his team that they worked so hard that he's taking them to a restaurant for a snack after, that may or may not be a "school formal gathering." I would argue that it's not, because it is informal (just my opinion, though).

If, however, it is deemed a "formal gathering", I don't think the statute requires a person to be a participant in that gathering ("at" the dinner) to be within the scope of the statute's prohibition on carry.

and just when it seemed to be getting clear . . .

In my opinion (I'm not a constitutional scholar by any means), I think that the statute as written may be unconstitionally vague or overbroad.

For example, let's say the high school football team rents a banquet hall at the Holiday Inn for an annual awards banquet. Seems like a formal ceremony/gathering to me.

Then, I stay at that Holiday Inn, with my sidearm, and avail myself of my room and all common areas. It's conceivable that I would be "in or on property" (the Holiday Inn) being used for a school function, according to the statute.

But would I? Is the "property being used by the school for a school function" the entire Holiday Inn, or just the banquet hall? (noticed I say "used"-I agree that it's good to stay away from the "rental" thing).

 

[ATM]

Any takers on being the test case?

I would.

Finding a prosecutor willing to charge me would be the hard part. They hate to lose.

 

[KG1]

This has been discussed here before and I believe the example that was used was if you were at the zoo and carrying and a bunch of school busses suddenly showed up with kids to attend a day at the zoo that you had no prior knowledge of, would it automatically put you in violation of IC?

 

[GlockWielder]

A school function is anything that is put on by the school or paid by the school. A soccer game, prom, high school dance, or field trip for example. Now I think you would have to be in attendance for an Indiana LEO to do anything about it. For example, if you are at a restaurant eating and a field trip of middle schoolers shows up that isn't really a school function unless you are in attendance because technically they would be in transport to that function right?

 

[jbombelli]

"...in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function..."

Not attending or being part of the school function...

 

[Hammerhead]

Couple of things...

IANAL but to parrot one of INGO's resident legal eagles, "It depends."

I believe he would also say something along the lines of "This is why we need to work to add a LTCH exception to the school carry law." I would change it to be "This is why we need to work to repeal stupid victim disarmament zone laws."

 

[Burnsy]

ATM said he would do it. Lets start a fund

 

[poptab]

Thanks guys for trying. I guess the law is clear as mud.
I do think that is unconstitutional but good luck arguing that before a judge.

So it is really up to the prosecuting attorney IF you even get caught. There is no case law on this I assume?

 

[NavyVet]

I would assume the Holiday Inn example would be covered under the part of the law that allows carry in common spaces between a prohibited area and an area that would be considered your property (in this case a rented hotel room).

As for the McDonalds example, that would be touchy. We take a robotics team to McDonalds on our way to a tournament. It is not a destination, event, or function. It is simply breakfast. The event is the tournament held at a different location.

I would think that an unannounced arrival of the school would not put you in jeopardy. I would think legally the action that put you in non-compliance with the law was not your action and without notification you would win.

If you arrived at the advertised football banquet at the local steakhouse (with signs or banners obviously posted) it could be another story. It would be your action that caused non-compliance.

I am not a lawyer either (and have never played one on TV).

The real answer is to get ambiguous laws off the books!!!