Legality Question: Hypothetical

[BlueEagle]

I've got a puzzler for your guys to pick over; I've been thinking about it for a couple of weeks, and I haven't come up with an answer either way, and was hoping for some good feedback.

So, in Indiana, you can get a LTCH at 18. Yay for that; I definitely took advantage of it.

I have a cousin who will be turning 18 in the near future. He is a good kid, and he wants to get his LTCH. I fully support that, and whenever he comes around I am coaching him as much as I can about gun safety and whatnot.

My question is about him actually obtaining a gun. If I buy a gun from a gun store, all above-board and legal, can I then turn around and sell it to him? Or would that be illegal, with him being 18?

Would it be a different situation if his mother was the one to buy the gun, and then sell it to him? Or would the gun have to be owned by his mother, and just loaned to him until he turns 21?

I guess what I am asking is "Can an 18 year old OWN a handgun, even though they cannot PURCHASE a handgun from a gun store?"

Also, what would be the legal ramifications for his mother if she sold/loaned the gun to him and he did have to use it? If there was some question about it being a "good" shoot or not, would she get dragged into it for arming him?

Thanks for all the responses gentlemen.

 

[Mr. Habib]

He can legally buy, or receive as a gift, a handgun from an individual, just not an FFL. He can legally carry any handgun that he legally possess, i.e. is not stolen.

 

[ATM]

Any Indiana resident that is not an FFL can sell or give a handgun to any other Indiana resident who is 18 and not otherwise prohibited from owning one.

see IC 35-47-2-7

A parent or guardian can do this at less than 18.

For you to buy a handgun from an FFL for him (since he can't) would be treading into illegal straw purchase territory.

Buy one for you, then sell him one of yours if you decide to go that route. And yes, he can own it.

He's also responsible for what he does with it - not the source he received it from.

 

[kludge]

If I buy a gun from a gun store, all above-board and legal, can I then turn around and sell it to him? Or would that be illegal, with him being 18?

It's not being 18 per se, The way I read it, if you buy it with the intention of turning around and selling it to someone who can't legally buy from a dealer, it is a "straw purchase" and is illegal.

A gift is fine.

A gun that was bought without the intention of turning around and selling it is fine.

Doesn't make any sense, does it?

I think there is a case headed through the system now about the whole 18 y.o. buying from a FFL business, now that SCOTUS has finally figured out the RKBA is an acutal right of the people (you'd think the Founders would have put that in there somewhere.)

 

[Marc]

if you buy or gift a gun to a person who can not legally own a gun you "lied for the other guy" and you yourself can get in biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig trouble

 

[CarmelHP]

if you buy or gift a gun to a person who can not legally own a gun you "lied for the other guy" and you yourself can get in biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig trouble

He can legally own it, just not buy it from an FFL dealer. The prohibition is on the dealer, he can not sell a handgun to anyone under 21. State law allows him to own and carry a handgun.

 

[Marc]

right im just saying. if the kid is legal then right on. my brother got me my first gun for me at the 1500 many years ago he was 21 and i was 16 but the gun never left the house till i was able to get my ltch

 

[BlueEagle]

Alright. This has helped clear up the circumstances a lot. I knew about straw purchases before, (I hang out at gun stores a lot,) and so I was just curious as to where the line was on that.

Thank you very much gentlemen.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

It's not being 18 per se, The way I read it, if you buy it with the intention of turning around and selling it to someone who can't legally buy from a dealer, it is a "straw purchase" and is illegal.

OK, I have a question about the bolded portion.

Can you buy a gun from an FFL with the intention of turning around and selling it to someone who CAN legally buy from a dealer?

For example. Let's say I'm up in Ft. Wayne area visiting relatives. On the way back to Indy, I stop in at 21st Century firearms. I see a great deal on particular 1911 gun that I know my brother is interested in getting. Let's say he lives in Evansville. I call him, tell him about the deal, and he wants it. He tells me "Yea, go ahead and buy it and I'll pick it up and pay you back next week when we come to visit in Indy." Would that be legal?

I'm buying the gun. It's not for me. I know the person I'm buying it for is proper person. On the paperwork, I say it's for me. Not entirely true, but I just plan on reselling it, at zero profit, to my brother later.

 

[PeaShooter]

OK, I have a question about the bolded portion.

Can you buy a gun from an FFL with the intention of turning around and selling it to someone who CAN legally buy from a dealer?

For example. Let's say I'm up in Ft. Wayne area visiting relatives. On the way back to Indy, I stop in at 21st Century firearms. I see a great deal on particular 1911 gun that I know my brother is interested in getting. Let's say he lives in Evansville. I call him, tell him about the deal, and he wants it. He tells me "Yea, go ahead and buy it and I'll pick it up and pay you back next week when we come to visit in Indy." Would that be legal?

I'm buying the gun. It's not for me. I know the person I'm buying it for is proper person. On the paperwork, I say it's for me. Not entirely true, but I just plan on reselling it, at zero profit, to my brother later.

I think that you are ok legally there. Since the person could pass a background check. However, I wouldn't advertise to the store that you are doing that, because they will assume that it is a straw purchase.

 

[Wink and the Gun]

I think there is a case headed through the system now about the whole 18 y.o. buying from a FFL business, now that SCOTUS has finally figured out the RKBA is an acutal right of the people (you'd think the Founders would have put that in there somewhere.)

Do you happen to know the name of the case (or citation)?

 

[BlueEagle]

I think this is one of those things that is sort of a gray area. I'm glad that we can discuss it though, because I'm learning a lot from the opinions and knowledge shared here.

 

[finity]

I think that you are ok legally there. Since the person could pass a background check. However, I wouldn't advertise to the store that you are doing that, because they will assume that it is a straw purchase.

That may be "sort of" true but I think there's a question along the lines of "are you the actual purchaser?" If you answer that question truthfully ("no") then it would be legal if they continued the sale. If you lied & said "yes" then you would be guilty of a federal FELONY for lying on the 4473 form.

It may not technically be a straw purchase but I don't think it would matter much at that point. You're still going to prison if you get caught.

 

[Wwwildthing]

It's a pity that the LTCH doesn't waive the NICS check.

 

[kludge]

Do you happen to know the name of the case (or citation)?

D'Cruz v. BATFE

NRA-ILA :: NRA CHALLENGES CONSTITUTIONALITY OF FEDERAL HANDGUN BAN FOR LAW ABIDING 18-20 YEAR OLDS

 

[MAJB Retired]

If you have a LTCH you shouldn't have to go through a background check every time. But then, those who have a LTCH may have had a change in status, that might make them no longer eligable and they haven't surrenderd their carry permit.

 

[BlueEagle]

I think any of us here that buy a gun have every intention of keeping it for ourselves....for some period of time. Some of us, thats years, and others it may only be weeks. Depends on the gun and the person.

But yes, I see what you mean finity.