LEO conversion of an AR15 questions!

[GlockWielder]

For starters, I searched for a thread like this but I did not find the information I was looking for. If anyone knows of a thread to check out, point me in the right direction please.

Now for my question.
I purchased a S&W 5.56 M&P rifle for sporting, duty use, and as a homestead defender. I am in the process of being hired as a sworn officer in SE Indiana by a local department. I know that one of the officers on the department has a fully automatic Colt M4 rifle that he personally owns and uses for duty use. What would it take to get my carbine fully auto legally? I know that after I get my credentials I can go through the law enforcement process which would be much easier and cheaper than by going by the sheepdog route and spending lots of $$$. I've heard that having a badge is an instant class III but better.
Would it be easier to purchase a new lower receiver and bolt carrier or would it be best to just convert mine by having someone machine out what isn't needed and put in the parts needed to have it FA?
Some may argue that a semi-auto is better but if I am ever raiding a house or serving a high profile warrant, I want to have something other than a semi auto for my own safety. FA FTW!

If anyone has any knowledge that would help me out I would appreciate it!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Uh, bad idea. THE department owns the FA firearm, not the officer in possession. So assuming you won't have a license to deal class III firearms, if you ever leave the department, YOUR firearm must be turned over to them. But never mind that, no department Is ever going to let you "modify" a firearm from SA to FA for duty use.

Stick with the SA, we're not living in Kabul yet. Train yourself to handle what you have adequately and safely, THEN decide if FA is better suited to your needs (which in my experience, unless you're a trained operator in very specific circumstances, it's not).

***2redcoins***

 

[Rookie]

Uh, bad idea. THE department owns the FA firearm, not the officer in possession. So assuming you won't have a license to deal class III firearms, if you ever leave the department, YOUR firearm must be turned over to them. But never mind that, no department Is ever going to let you "modify" a firearm from SA to FA for duty use.

Are you qualified to answer this?

 

[nox]

I was under the impression that no one could manufacture FA firearms since the 1986 ban?

 

[Stainer]

I can tell you from personal military experience, we never turned our m16's to burst unless we were laying down suppressive fire. I used it once in training just for fun. Never overseas. Shot placement is key. Our SWAT operators on our department have even told me that they never use full auto even though all of their rifles and subguns are capable of it.

After all that if you still want it and can get it approved for use by your department, have your department buy one. It will be much cheaper and easier. If your department won't buy it and you just really have to have it, buy an m16 for about 12-15k and put whatever tactical stuff on it you want.

My suggestion is don't do it.

 

[Stainer]

I was under the impression that no one could manufacture FA firearms since the 1986 ban?

Unless they have the proper licensing.

 

[GBuck]

For starters, I searched for a thread like this but I did not find the information I was looking for. If anyone knows of a thread to check out, point me in the right direction please.

Now for my question.
I purchased a S&W 5.56 M&P rifle for sporting, duty use, and as a homestead defender. I am in the process of being hired as a sworn officer in SE Indiana by a local department. I know that one of the officers on the department has a fully automatic Colt M4 rifle that he personally owns and uses for duty use. What would it take to get my carbine fully auto legally? I know that after I get my credentials I can go through the law enforcement process which would be much easier and cheaper than by going by the sheepdog route and spending lots of $$$. I've heard that having a badge is an instant class III but better.
Would it be easier to purchase a new lower receiver and bolt carrier or would it be best to just convert mine by having someone machine out what isn't needed and put in the parts needed to have it FA?
Some may argue that a semi-auto is better but if I am ever raiding a house or serving a high profile warrant, I want to have something other than a semi auto for my own safety. FA FTW!

If anyone has any knowledge that would help me out I would appreciate it!

A badge is an auto-Class III huh?

You should probably find the person that told you this information, punch them in the face, and then ask why they want to see you jammed up by the ATF.

 

[TWalker]

[ame]http://youtu.be/s3nGbN7RxpI[/ame]


I think Kyle Lamb is qualified to give some advice on this. You should never need FA. My advice would be to spend that money on real training and actually learn to run your weapon.


This is why so many people have problems with LEOs on this forum. A badge is the same or better as a class III license! Seriously? Where do you LEOs get your information?

 

[phylodog]

Whomever provided you with that information has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. As a police officer you are no more privileged than any other citizen concerning NFA firearms. The only breaks provided are to LE agencies and that comes in the form of being allowed to possess properly registered machine guns manufactured after 1986 and not having to pay the tax to own them. LE agencies are not authorized to convert semi auto rifles to full auto without the proper procedures.

If you want to own a machine gun you must follow the same rules as everyone else and pay the big bucks to own one. The only other option is to be issued a machine gun by your agency and as Stainer mentioned, we have them but do not use them. I serve warrants on dangerous people regularly and I turned in my full auto rifle and carry a personally owned semi auto. I see virtually no need for full auto in LE. There aren't many agencies who would be willing to spend the money to properly train for it and an untrained officer shooting full auto is a liability cupcake just waiting to be eaten.

 

[phylodog]

http://youtu.be/s3nGbN7RxpI


I think Kyle Lamb is qualified to give some advice on this. You should never need FA. My advice would be to spend that money on real training and actually learn to run your weapon.

Agreed.

This is why so many people have problems with LEOs on this forum. A badge is the same or better as a class III license! Seriously? Where do you LEOs get your information?

Whoa there. There have been plenty of uninformed gun owners here on INGO with similar questions. Folks come here to learn and some of them are LE. The OP isn't (yet) and I for one am pleased that he came here to ask as now hopefully he won't be in the news for illegally manufacturing a machine gun while wearing a badge.

There is no shortage of misinformation out there. No one segment has a monopoly on it.

 

[Stainer]

This is why so many people have problems with LEOs on this forum. A badge is the same or better as a class III license! Seriously? Where do you LEOs get your information?

Robert Downey Jr playing Kirk Lazarus as Sergeant Lincoln Osiris in Tropic Thunder said it best "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE?"


@33 seconds

Warning, Language is not so appropriate
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxs0Qh72kY[/ame]

 

[TWalker]

Whoa there. There have been plenty of uninformed gun owners here on INGO with similar questions. Folks come here to learn and some of them are LE. The OP isn't (yet) and I for one am pleased that he came here to ask as now hopefully he won't be in the news for illegally manufacturing a machine gun while wearing a badge.

There is no shortage of misinformation out there. No one segment has a monopoly on it.

You are correct Phylodog. Misinformation is everywhere and he is at least looking for answers . However, I hold LEOs to a higher standard when it comes to knowing the law. After all, it is their job to enforce it. Maybe the OP should just quit worrying about how he can go FA when he hops on a 2 way range and start studying.

 

[curraheeguns]

Like said above, Dept's receive NFA weapons on ATF Form 5's tax free. They have no abililty or right to manufacture any NFA weapon, except they do have the right to legally register an illegal NFA item on a Form 10.

Individual officers may only possess NFA items that are owned by themselves or issued by the department.

Also remember that if you use your own weapon and you shoot someone then you probably are not going to see that weapon again for at least a year or two.....if ever.

 

[indianaarsenal]

+1 on that one.. if you shoot someone with a transferable m16 , consider it gone..

I have never heard of a dept letting individual officers use personal owned MG's on duty?? I would love to see an example. However, I have heard of officers buying MG's for their department, so they can carry one.. but it still belongs to the department and not the officer. So if they leave the gun stays

 

[GlockWielder]

Good information

Thank you for all the replies. I understand. So some of what I've heard on the grape vine is not true. However, I do believe that it is HIS M4 carbine. I'll have to ask him about it again though to be absolutely positive. I did not mean to say that by having a badge I would be above the law, it is just easier to get things that are more restricted to civilians by having a badge correct? That is what I meant. I do know that the department has m16s that are old they keep in the trunk so it may be completely useless to even use my carbine. Why put the wear and tear on it and have all the legal issues right?

I do feel very qualified to shoot my M4 as it sits right now in semi auto. I feel very comfortable with double taps and three shots in a row on a paper plate from 20-30 feet with iron sights. My initial thoughts were that I would be very prepared for a lethal force scenario but I did not want to feel under gunned by not having a fully automatic option. I am a firm believer that having options can save your life. Having a fully automatic option is nice to have though I may never use it, right?

For the record, I am not a sworn officer yet so I'm still getting familiar with the police procedure and I am not an expert on anything involving federal laws and restrictions and class III licensing. I just need some information and I heard from a youtube user that INGunOwners.com had some valuable information on Class III licenses.

This was my thought process involving a personal weapon used during official duty. As I saw nutnfancy on the internet talk about his P228, he said he received it through his military career through the proper paperwork and now that he is retired, he still has the gun and it is his personal property. I just figured that it would work the same way but I'm still new to all that.
Thanks for all the information!

 

[curraheeguns]

I did not mean to say that by having a badge I would be above the law, it is just easier to get things that are more restricted to civilians by having a badge correct?

Not really. You will probably get 1/2 off at Hooters, but no difference in the NFA (Title II) world or the Title I gun world unless it involves a store or manufacturer discount (Like the RRA Operator Series semi-auto AR's or the Glock Blue Level Pricing) or something.

ATF could give a flying fart if you are a LEO.

 

[Rookie]

Full auto is for suppressive fire only.

It is easier to get things civilians can't get easily (full auto, sbs) but it belongs to the department, not you.

 

[curraheeguns]

It is easier to get things civilians can't get easily (full auto, sbs) but it belongs to the department, not you.

Correct, if that is what you meant. But you as an individual won't really change anything weapon wise.

Unless they ban hi-cap mags again, at least during the last ban LEO's could buy hi-cap mags with a valid department ID and did not have to go through a department purchase order. They could not however buy the banned weapons.

 

[Rookie]

In other words, you can get weapons issued to you, but they will never be yours. They will always belong to the department. For example, a shotgun with a 14 inch barrel. It will be your issued weapon as long as the department allows you to have it, but you will never OWN an sbs in Indiana unless the law is repealed.

 

[jhorutz]

Absolutely right!!! LEO's don't have any special privileges when it comes to personal ownership of FA weapons. LEO's have to follow the same guidelines as civilians do when it comes to PERSONAL gun ownership of any kind.