LEO randomly running plates

[freekforge]

please tell me you are trying to get to 50 and that wasn't a serious post.

 

[HoughMade]

please tell me you are trying to get to 50 and that wasn't a serious post.

PRIVACY!!!!

It's like the the cops are leafing through state maintained records to look for open warrants....how dare they. Once the information is in their files, no peeking! (without a warrant)

 

[kludge]

Is that normal, legal, proper procedure?

hmmm.... i wonder what they do driving around with those dash cams and computers and character recognition software... </purple>

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You should really familiarize yourself with Indiana's "Stalking" statute, IC 35-45-10.

Oh, I do, do I?

Ok, let's all hear from someone who found a post of mine from 11 years ago on another forum and wanted to talk about it.

That's not creepy at all, but what is creepy is that cops are using their eyes.

 

[Compatriot G]

Funny story!

In 2001, I knew a Marion County Sheriff's deputy. He was a rookie. He told me he was listening to his car radio one night and it was mentioned that it was then president George W. Bush's birthday. He said it was a slow night and he was bored. So, he decided to put the President's name and DOB into his computer. He mentioned that W had a valid Texas driver's license. He said it wasn't too long afterwards that he got a call from his supervisor. The Secret Service had called and wanted to know why a Marion County Sheriff's deputy was running the President's info.

He was fired not too long after this incident. It seems he drove his squad car to Ohio to visit relatives. While he was there, his squad car was broken into and all the firearms were stolen.

 

[HoughMade]

Funny story!

In 2001, I knew a Marion County Sheriff's deputy. He was a rookie. He told me he was listening to his car radio one night and it was mentioned that it was then president George W. Bush's birthday. He said it was a slow night and he was bored. So, he decided to put the President's name and DOB into his computer. He mentioned that W had a valid Texas driver's license. He said it wasn't too long afterwards that he got a call from his supervisor. The Secret Service had called and wanted to know why a Marion County Sheriff's deputy was running the President's info.

He was fired not too long after this incident. It seems he drove his squad car to Ohio to visit relatives. While he was there, his squad car was broken into and all the firearms were stolen.

It seems he may have had......judgment issues.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Funny story!

In 2001, I knew a Marion County Sheriff's deputy. He was a rookie. He told me he was listening to his car radio one night and it was mentioned that it was then president George W. Bush's birthday. He said it was a slow night and he was bored. So, he decided to put the President's name and DOB into his computer. He mentioned that W had a valid Texas driver's license. He said it wasn't too long afterwards that he got a call from his supervisor. The Secret Service had called and wanted to know why a Marion County Sheriff's deputy was running the President's info.

He was fired not too long after this incident. It seems he drove his squad car to Ohio to visit relatives. While he was there, his squad car was broken into and all the firearms were stolen.

Yeah, running the president, not a good idea. I still remember day ONE of IDACS/NCIC training them telling us not to look up famous people, ESPECIALLY the president.

 

[VUPDblue]

I drive one of our License Plate Reader (LPR) cars around on my district. It is a pain in the ass because it generates a "hit" on every suspended owner and expired plate, along with stolen and felony hits. Each "hit" has to be cleared by hand, hence the PITA. I have found and recovered a couple stolen unoccupied vehicles but have yet to get anything "good".

 

[JettaKnight]

So, what's the problem? You are out in public with no reasonable expectation of privacy and what, you feel violated that someone is looking at you?

Someone tell me what the problem is.

Great. Just great. This thread was just simmering along until you come along and bring your stalkers with you. Now this thing's headed to a boil over.


It seems like this thread is full of people who would have blamed the automobile for destroying buggy whip industry. Here's a technology that replaces manual data entry and is an order of several magnitude faster and by all accounts is a boon for society in that quickly identifies lawbreakers. There's no privacy violation, no one is detained, there's no question to not answer...

 

[JettaKnight]

I drive one of our License Plate Reader (LPR) cars around on my district. It is a pain in the ass because it generates a "hit" on every suspended owner and expired plate, along with stolen and felony hits. Each "hit" has to be cleared by hand, hence the PITA. I have found and recovered a couple stolen unoccupied vehicles but have yet to get anything "good".

That's interesting. It seems the technology was well verified in that it does what it was programmed to do, but wasn't validated with the key shareholder (you, the operator) to ensure it does the right thing.


ENGINEERS!!!!!

PS - It really pisses me off when people think they are the arbitrators of what and LEO should or should not be doing. You know what I mean - "You should be catching murders, not puling me over."

It's extremely arrogant and I hope these people get the tables turned on them at their job.

 

[VUPDblue]

There is LPR software out there that I believe is better than what we use. That said, I have no input or control over what we use. If the software was better, I'd use the LPR car more often.

 

[Denny347]

Some legal reading for those complaining that this is illegal. I researched these myself for a court case back in 2008 because the prosecutor had no idea this was legal...rookies!!!

-Katz v. U.S., 389 U.S. 347 (1967) (only an expectation of privacy if society accepts as reasonable)

-United States v. Matthews, 615 F.2d 1279, 1285 (10th Cir. 1980) “Every court that has addressed this issue has reached the same conclusion. The Tenth Circuit has held on two occasions that license plates are "in plain view on the outside of the car" and thus, are "subject to seizure" because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy

-New York v. Class, 475 U.S. 106 (1986) (no expectation of privacy in vehicle identification number)

-United States v. Walraven, 892 F.2d 972, 974 (10th Cir. 1989)

-Olabisiomotosho v. City of Houston, 185 F.3d 521, 529 (5th Cir. 1999) The Fifth Circuit has also held that "[a] motorist has no privacy interest in her license plate number."

-State v. Richter, 765 A.2d 687 (New Hampshire Supreme Court 2000)

-United States v. $14,000.00 in U.S. Currency, 2000 U.S. App. LEXIS 2429, No. 98-4380, 2000 WL 222587, at *3 (6th Cir. Feb. 14, 2000) (finding no Fourth Amendment violation in a computer check of a license plate)

- United States v. Sparks, 37 Fed. Appx. 826, 829 (8th Cir. 2002)

- Hallstein v. City of Hermosa Beach, 87 Fed. Appx. 17, 19 (9th Cir. 2003)

- United States v. Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. 831, 832 (6th Cir. 2003) As one panel wrote, "[T]here is no case law indicating that there can be any reasonable expectation of privacy in license plates which are required by law to be displayed in public on the front and rear of any vehicle on a public street." Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. at 832;

- Wayne R. LaFave, 1 Search & Seizure § 2.5(b) (4th ed. 2004) ("t is apparent that when a vehicle is parked on the street or in a lot or at some other location where it is readily subject to observation by members of the public, it is no search for the police to look at the exterior of the vehicle.") (citing Katz and Olabisiomotosho )

-U.S. v. Ellison, 462 F.3d 557 (6th Cir. 2006)

 

[snafu21]

I'm curious is there is a database where they store how many times your plate has been run with location, time, date, or whatever. Such databases could be used in scary ways.

 

[VUPDblue]

The LPR databases do that. I have no idea how long the data is stored but I seem to remember that its maybe 6 months.

 

[cobber]

X2, and add a "wut?"

Make that 3x... and an ach du lieber!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Great. Just great. This thread was just simmering along until you come along and bring your stalkers with you. Now this thing's headed to a boil over.

I'll trade you one of those wood-stocked PTR-91s for them.

 

[2001FZ1]

There's that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear mindset.

I'm not a big fan of "fishing" and I see this as just that. I mean it's nothing to riot over but it just doesn't seem right, I feel like there's more important thing our LEO'S can be doing other than driving around parking lots running the plates.

I don't see anything different from scanning every plate in public view to scanning every face (with facial recognition software) in public view. If in public, the government can scan and track your license plate. The government should be scanning and tracking your face that is in public view too.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm curious is there is a database where they store how many times your plate has been run with location, time, date, or whatever. Such databases could be used in scary ways.

In the day of everyone having a mobile phone tracking and plotting license plates would be like using an abacus instead of a computer.

 

[wadcutter]

Oh, I do, do I?

Ok, let's all hear from someone who found a post of mine from 11 years ago on another forum and wanted to talk about it.

That's not creepy at all, but what is creepy is that cops are using their eyes.

Mr. Freeman:

I'm not sure I understand your legal theory. Is the point at which a citizen may justifiably complain at "creepy" or "expectation of privacy?"

 

[Denny347]

I'm curious is there is a database where they store how many times your plate has been run with location, time, date, or whatever. Such databases could be used in scary ways.

There is an audit trail kept but law dictates that license inquires are purged every 90 days I think. The audit only shows the plate number ran and which terminal ran it on what day. There is no location. It's been like that since the 70's.