Letter to GOP

[karlsgunbunker]

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Censored!http://www.lettertogop.com/

 

[melensdad]

Much as I agree with the tone/sentiment of part of that letter the "fact" is that letter is not "factual" despite its claims. Further it states opinions and claims them to be "fact." It makes claims without proof and then declares them to be "fact."

Those of us who like Ron Paul, but who would not vote for McCain in the general election are fools who are actually supporting Obama by drawing support away from the only viable alternative to Obama. While McCain is clearly not my choice, he will have my vote because voting for a 3rd party choice, while 'principled' is also a guaranteed loss for gun owners.

Perpetuating misinformation like that so-called 'factual' list contained in that letter is likely to put Obama in office. Much of that letter can be easily de-bunked by reading the Rasmussen tracking data or other historically accurate professional 'pundits' who have proven their accuracy over time.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

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[melensdad]

Karl, I have no problem with your opinion. I only pointed out that the letter is not factual and contains many errors, and claims of fact that are not fact.

I personally love Ron Paul's positions, we can agree to disagree on voting for him, but that will not make the letter any closer to accurate. The letter is still wrong on many counts.

The "Letter" states the following:

Point #1 in the letter claims [FONT=verdana,arial,san-serif]In a head to head race with Senator John McCain and no third party contenders, Senator Barack Obama would easily win the Presidency. Some pundits are saying "in a landslide."
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Rasmussen tracking data shows that RIGHT NOW that McCain would get electoral college 240 votes while Obama would get 260. That is not a landslide, nor is it even a sure victory for Obama, who just got a boost in the polls by finally winning his party.
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Point #2 in the letter claims [FONT=verdana,arial,san-serif]Former GOP Representative Bob Barr has entered the race on the Libertarian ticket which will siphon votes away from Senator John McCain and the GOP. (The Nader effect) Traditionally, the Libertarian candidate gets 1% of the vote, however pundits are estimating that former GOP Representative Bob Barr will garner 5-8% or more.
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While it is true that Barr entered the race, and while true that it will siphon some votes from McCain, most polls suggest he will get no more than 3% of the vote (BTW Nader got 5%)
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[FONT=verdana,arial,san-serif] Point #3 in the letter claims [/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,san-serif]Senator John McCain is a pro-war candidate. National polls show that 70% of American voters are against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore, a large number of the voting public will vote against Senator John McCain based on this fact.
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Again it is true that McCain favors winning the war, and again it is true that roughly 70% of the populous wants a speedy end, the conclusion is not factual. In fact when ranked by voter importance, many of the voters who want to get out of Iraq place it well down the importance list in what will determine who they vote for. Further, on issues of National Security, McCain ranks #1 with voters which further mutes the falsehood of the above 'fact.'
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I could go on. As I stated, there are simply many wild claims that are outright wrong, not factual, and obviously not accurate in that letter. It will not be taken seriously by any party, but I'm sure Obama's camp would love to see its so-called "facts" become widely accepted.
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[karlsgunbunker]

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[Bill of Rights]

There are enough concerned Gun Owners in this country to make a third party vote viable.

True. The trick is 1) You have to get them to believe it, and 2) you have to get a candidate like Dr. Paul they can stand behind.

I want Dr. Paul to win. I ran for State Delegate in this last election in an attempt to go to the convention to cast exactly that vote. Sadly, Dr. Paul is not likely to win the GOP nomination, so that leaves the question that if you will not hold your nose and pull McCain's lever, and Dr. Paul does not run 3rd party, for whom will you vote? You don't need to answer that, I'm asking it rhetorically.

I don't know how true it is, but I once read that 40% of the public will vote party-line Democrat, 40% will vote party-line GOP, and the remaining 20% are who the candidates try to woo, knowing the other 80% are already "sewn up".

Given no better option, I'll vote against Obama with who I think actually stands a chance of beating him, because even if the vote is 48% Obama, 47% McCain, 3% Barr, and only 2% Paul, we still get Obama, where that 2% might have actually made the difference and kept a socialist/communist out of office. Dr. Paul will not be President this time around, and that means that not only does he lose, so does the rest of America.

Blessings,
B

 

[BloodEclipse]

Given no better option, I'll vote against Obama with who I think actually stands a chance of beating him, because even if the vote is 48% Obama, 47% McCain, 3% Barr, and only 2% Paul, we still get Obama, where that 2% might have actually made the difference and kept a socialist/communist out of office.

First let me say I am disgusted with my Republican Party. With President Bush I have many disagreements. ie. Immigration, Education, trying to reach acroos the isle to liberals etc.... Spending is out of control and government is larger then it needs to be and is becoming a large burden on the Actual Working People. You know those of us not getting a government handout and no I don't want a handout I want to keep more of what I work hard for.If you vote for anyone other than McCain the raw truth is you are voting to have the government grow even faster and see your rights diminish. Like it or not a vote for anyone other than McCain = a vote for Obama.Do I think McCain will reverse things from where they are now? Not likely but I see him as doing far less Damage than Obama. If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

 

[bwframe]

If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

Exactly!

 

[4sarge]

First let me say I am disgusted with my Republican Party. With President Bush I have many disagreements. ie. Immigration, Education, trying to reach across the isle to liberals etc.... Spending is out of control and government is larger then it needs to be and is becoming a large burden on the Actual Working People. You know those of us not getting a government handout and no I don't want a handout I want to keep more of what I work hard for.If you vote for anyone other than McCain the raw truth is you are voting to have the government grow even faster and see your rights diminish. Like it or not a vote for anyone other than McCain = a vote for Obama.Do I think McCain will reverse things from where they are now? Not likely but I see him as doing far less Damage than Obama. If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

A Vote for anyone but McCain is a Vote for OBama. I'm not thrilled with McCain but he's got to be better than Barry OBama

 

[melensdad]

Melensdad,
I never made any assertion that any of the "Facts" in the letter were true or false.

Karl, I'm sorry if you think I suggested you made that assertion, I did not. What I attempted to say is that the letter is full of lies and mis-statements but I did not try to attribute those to you.

I then went on to illustrate some of the problems by simply providing some information regarding the first three points in the letter.

There are enough concerned Gun Owners in this country to make a third party vote viable.

Well I hope that is true at some point in the future, but I doubt if that is true today. I certainly have not seen any evidence that your statement is true. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that, of the total population of gun owners, that there is a huge amount of apathy in most of them. There is also a small, but growing group of gun owners, that is becoming more vocal and more organized.

One thing we all must realize is that we who are members of the NRA, GOA, CCRKBA or other organizations, and we who post pro-gun messages on the internet are probably far more active in gun rights than the 'typical' gun owner who has 1 gun, rarely if ever practices with it, and is often in favor of 'reasonable' gun controls.

I've had many arguments with gun owners who would have no problem banning 'semi-autos' or 'assault weapons.'

I think many people dramatically over estimate the number of gun owners who will actively support gun rights. I'm not saying that we are a small group, the NRA has plenty of proof to show that politicians can be beaten, or can win, with the support of gun owners. But what I am saying is that gun owners are not the unified group that some think we are, nor are we big enough to become our own party.

JMO

A Vote for anyone but McCain is a Vote for OBama. I'm not thrilled with McCain but he's got to be better than Barry OBama

If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

 

[Bigum1969]

When you vote for a president, how often do you actually expect to get "exactly" what you want? You've go to decide what's important to you and and then pick the candidate that most closely aligns with that.

But, should you just waste your vote? If you feel that Barack Obama is a better candidate for what's important to you than you can either vote for Him or Ron Paul. Either way, you are directly or indirectly supporting Barack Obama.

If John McCain is higher on your list than Barack Obama, you've got to punch your ticket for him. In my opinion, any other vote supports Obama.

It's a free country, well sort of. Vote how you like.

 

[NEOCON]

I fully understand Karls frustration with setteling for the lesser of the 2 evils. I believe that the GOP needs a wake up call to help them realize what they are supposed to be doing. There is very little "proven" difference between McCain and Obamma as far as their voting goes. The main differences being the War and the 2nd Ammendment, and McCain is very shakey on the 2nd regardless of what he "says". We as conservatives and republicans were force fed McCain early in the race as the other canidates were shunned the media coverage. We have our beloved media and a few conservative talk show hosts to thank for this. If the true conservatives would have gotten behind the better and more conservative of the 4 evils instead of trying to tout how good Rudy was (give me a break) we might have had a decent canidate this year.
I am sorry I cannot support the lesser of the 2 evils with a clear conscience. I have always been a conservative, my family has been involved in Republican politics since I was a kid. The Republican party is steadily sliding towards the left as the Dems slide pretty much over the edge. I believe it may be time for a new conservative party in this country. Will it happen overnight? No. But I do believe it will happen and it will happen with my full support. If us true conservatives do not stand up for what is right and what we want in a canidate then who will? If the GOP wants to start standing up for conservative values then they will once again get my support. Who will get my vote this year? I guess we will have to wait and see.
It really is simple my values, my vote, my support.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

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[melensdad]

the only way to send a message is to vote for someone other than the two Idiots the mainstream parties have put forth.

Sorry but now I will have to call ********.

Want to send a message then it is better to get involved in politics on your local level. You don't have to run for town council, but you can go out and organize for your candidate. The problem is that in this election cycle it is to late to make a practical change. If you want Ron Paul (as I do) then you needed to be working for the Libertarian Party 3.5 years ago building an organization in your county (and perhaps even the surrounding counties) to get his name out. Paul has run as both a Republican and a Libertarian in the past. But even the Libertarians didn't pick him up this time around, they grabbed an even longer shot in their choice of Bob Barr.

Want to send a message, then don't do it once every 4th year with a vote that will be ignored. Do it every day for the next 16 to 20 years and build a party. That is what it will take.

 

[4sarge]

No offense but I have to call Bullshite!

It's this defeatest attitude that got us in this situation in the first place.

Ya'll have already given up and now you are telling others that they should give up and just accept any candidate that the GOP hands us.

The choice between Odumba and McCain is like the choice between being dipped in a vat of Horse Sh!t or a vat of Cow sh!t.
Either way you've been dipped in Sh!t!

the only way to send a message is to vote for someone other than the two Idiots the mainstream parties have put forth.

Karl, Ron Paul maybe Good BUT he's NOT that Damn Good that I'd forfeit my VOTE and ALLOW Barry OBama the Presidency.

That's like saying thst you'd ever only marry (or have sex with )

Since this isn't going to ever happen for you or me, we exercise other options.

Barry OBama will stomp on what few civil rights that we have left and will ruin this great nation.

 

[4sarge]

4 Karl

Just 4 Karl

 

[Disposable Heart]

Independant voters usually vote for them anyways. There has only been one instance of third parties "screwing up" an election, The Bull Moose Party. Keep in mind, Teddy was a charismatic fellow who got a TON of votes because of his past career. Mr. Paul is a great guy, love his politics, however, I would not vote for him as his chances of success are slim. He does not have the following that Teddy had and will most likely not perform as many of his followers would think in an election. From Bull Moose on, many third parties only recieved single digit percentages of the popular vote, where Teddy got at least into the double digits.

That being said, while I will not vote for Ron, I will support any bid he may throw for Congressional candidacy. That is truely where a third party can have influence. After a few SUCCESSFUL terms as a Congressman, along with several members of the same party serving in other seats, and has double digit approval numbers in more than 5 states, then he will certainly get my vote.

As for this presidential hoopla, lets spend some i-net time researching what congressional candidates we want. They form the committees that research and debate our right infrigements. Lets do that before it's too late to properly inform others of who is 2md amend friendly.

 

[melensdad]

Independant voters usually vote for them anyways. There has only been one instance of third parties "screwing up" an election, The Bull Moose Party.

Actually Ralph Nader cost the Democrats the last election, he ran as Green Party and pulled enough liberal votes away that Bush won the election. I guess in real terms that means the election was not 'screwed up' because the better (more pro gun) candidate won. But make no mistake, 3rd party candidates can easily throw an election to one party or the other. In this election cycle it is more likely to hurt the GOP than the Democrats because both major party candidates are on the liberal end of the spectrum (one being ultra liberal, the other being moderately liberal).

 

[Crystalship1]

So sad... but SO true!!!

A Vote for anyone but McCain is a Vote for OBama. I'm not thrilled with McCain but he's got to be better than Barry OBama

 

[bwframe]

Didn't Ross Perot end us up with Bill Clinton? Which lead to his gun ban?