Long range shooting - 1,000 yards

[avboiler11]

Its not about the chambering, bullet diameter, bullet weight or powder column.

George Gardner and Pat Sinclair have killed dozens of animals with 6 and 6.5mm chamberings at long range with extreme ethics...but they've both gone through a *lot* of components and barrels building the skill to consistently put the bullet where it needs to go. Many other people have as well...but again, they've got the marksmanship skill to do it.

Proverbial "its the Indian, not the arrow" kind of thing.

I'd still argue a non-magnum short action chambering is marginal for a 1000yd shot on medium game. Can it do it, of course, but its getting sketch for velocity and energy and puts a premium on shot placement (duh) and bullet design.

 

[natdscott]

Believe it or not, I came into competition FROM hunter-ing, not the other way around. Hunted for almost 30 years now, only competing for about 10.

My opinion on the matter is that for LR hunting you need, at a minimum:

0.500 BC, starting at 3,000 fps, or equivalent.

1,000-1,200 foot pounds of energy at impact

PREFERABLY about 2,000+ fps remaining velocity at impact

0.250-0.300 Sectional Density

A well-designed hunting bullet being used within it’s impact velocity parameters (ie: not too hard for decent expansion at relatively low speed) **And this MIGHT not be the same bullet you’d need at 200 yards.

The lower the speed at impact, the larger bullet you need, in both diameter and weight.


If you start running the numbers on the above, trying to fill that order, you quickly figure out that things that say “Magnum” and “Weatherby” on the roll mark make a lot more sense than things that do not.

Too, if you have one of the roll marks that does NOT do well with that list, then you should still use it, but SCALE BACK your goals to the range at which your rifle WILL hit those numbers.

I’ve killed some animals very, very well, and I’ve killed some not so well.

The common thread with at least a few of the latter were that my ego and ambitions exceeded my skills at that moment.

Don’t do that. Don’t let friends do that.

 

[Thegeek]

IIRC, he'll need to be about 30~34" high at 100 yds., depending on load.

As a new LRPS myself, I think you need to inform your buddy what he's really looking at. Scope isn't the issue. 14-16x is plenty. You just want something that holds and can handle the shock. The real challenge is in the ammo. Out of the box 140gr ELDM from Hornady (or the 147) are about the best you can do out of the box. Those drop more like 300" at 1000 yards. 30MOA, not 30". I put a refurb Vortex Viper on mine (thanks Alan). My goal is an 8" plate at 1000yd. I have no illusions how difficult that is.

 

[DadSmith]

As a new LRPS myself, I think you need to inform your buddy what he's really looking at. Scope isn't the issue. 14-16x is plenty. You just want something that holds and can handle the shock. The real challenge is in the ammo. Out of the box 140gr ELDM from Hornady (or the 147) are about the best you can do out of the box. Those drop more like 300" at 1000 yards. 30MOA, not 30". I put a refurb Vortex Viper on mine (thanks Alan). My goal is an 8" plate at 1000yd. I have no illusions how difficult that is.

Don't forget altitude makes a big difference as well. Shooting in a rifle at 700 feet then going to 5,000 + feet there is less drop the higher the altitude.

 

[natdscott]

Don't forget altitude…

If we are being honest, the firing solution for a UKD shot of 4 digits’ range is beyond the comprehension of a new shooter, much less the ability to calculate it on the fly, or doing anything with the information if they could.

I mean no harm by this, but it’s still true.

I am a fair distance from a beginner, and I doubt I could make a good first round hit on an open-range moving antelope at a K.

I just wouldn’t take that shot.

It’s just too dynamic, too small, and I am too inexperienced at that type of shooting.

 

[2in1evtime]

Mark 8 3.5-25X56 M5C2 FFP TMR

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This is what i have been using on my custom built 6.5x284 this past year for the money shoots i go to, have shot from 500 yards out to 1200 yards, the scope has been dependable, haven't regretted it yet. I am like others here your buddy needs to get a lot of time and experience behind that rifle, he may find it is doable for him or it may be out of his league. As to hunting and killing at 1,000 yds it is something i would never consider unless mu life depended on it. Like mentioned before scope and rings are important, just as much as the shooter and the rifle.

 

[Twangbanger]

As a new LRPS myself, I think you need to inform your buddy what he's really looking at. Scope isn't the issue. 14-16x is plenty. You just want something that holds and can handle the shock. The real challenge is in the ammo. Out of the box 140gr ELDM from Hornady (or the 147) are about the best you can do out of the box. Those drop more like 300" at 1000 yards. 30MOA, not 30". I put a refurb Vortex Viper on mine (thanks Alan). My goal is an 8" plate at 1000yd. I have no illusions how difficult that is.

(Fyi, I didn't write it would be 30" down at 1,000...I said it needs to be 30" UP at _100_ yards...it will be even more up at 200, more than that at 300, etc....to be "on" at 1,000...at 500...you can about park a car under it, with a man standing on top...).

 

[55fairlane]

Psh. Who needs Palma sights?!

A2 FTW…. Lmao!!

1000 yards with A2 service rifle sights, you are my hero!

 

[natdscott]

1000 yards with A2 service rifle sights, you are my hero!

Naw. Sam Freeman is the OG with the Service Rifle!

I just tag along with those AMU guys.

 

[Leadeye]

There's always old school.

 

[Twangbanger]

There's always old school. View attachment 173990 View attachment 173991

Leadeye, if that's your place, I think I would like to come over and clean guns with you...you have some interesting cleaning chemicals in your cabinet.

 

[Leadeye]

Leadeye, if that's your place, I think I would like to come over and clean guns with you...you have some interesting cleaning chemicals in your cabinet.

That's my bar, I do a lot of gun work there as the light is very good.

 

[Leo]

(Fyi, I didn't write it would be 30" down at 1,000...I said it needs to be 30" UP at _100_ yards...it will be even more up at 200, more than that at 300, etc....to be "on" at 1,000...at 500...you can about park a car under it, with a man standing on top...).

I don't have my ballistic data sheets any more, but I seem to remember that a true regulation PALMA bullet is 326 inches high at 700 yards and dropping like a rock before hitting the 1000 yard target. Lower BC bullets will have to be higher than that.

Technically, you could have a man stand at 700 yards from your rifle with his face in line of sight with the target bullseye and aim right at his nose. The bullet would easily clear his head and drop into the bullseye 300 yards behind him. I have yet to get a volunteer..........

 

[Leo]

The controversy of hunting at a distance has been hotly contested at both sides since Townsend Whelen started writing about long range hunting with the .270 Win back in 1958. some can pull it off some cannot. Some are just plain lucky.

 

[bwframe]

...Technically, you could have a man stand at 700 yards from your rifle with his face in line of sight with the target bullseye and aim right at his nose. The bullet would easily clear his head and drop into the bullseye 300 yards behind him. I have yet to get a volunteer..........

I'm a real outsider looking in on this. Love the experienced commentary though. Thank all of you for contributing!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but we're really not talking about ethical 1000 yard hunting shots, right? Shouldn't 1000 yards shots be reserved for those who are already shooting at you or threats that will be?

 

[Leo]

I'm a real outsider looking in on this. Love the experienced commentary though. Thank all of you for contributing!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but we're really not talking about ethical 1000 yard hunting shots, right? Shouldn't 1000 yards shots be reserved for those who are already shooting at you or threats that will be?

no, I am not really looking into this as hunting or otherwise. It was meant to be an illustration of bullet drop physics when shooting at a 1000 yard target, with an attempt at humor. This tread kind of subdivided into two different areas of long range riflemanship.

 

[BugI02]

Deleted. Effed up my math

 

[two70]

I find it odd that people think long range hunting is unethical.

Setting aside the problems of relatively few people having the actual skills to make shots like that reliably and most bullets being under their minimum performance velocity at that distance, that still leaves the major problem of flight time. Even if the shooter does everything correctly, has the skills, and has the equipment, there is absolutely no guarantee that the animal will even still be where it was when the trigger broke 1.5+ seconds later. Now, add to that the problem of even the best shooters with the best gear having difficulty maintaining an 8" vital zone sized group at that distance under field conditions. Then there is the not so minor problem of finding the animal after even a well placed shot at long range.

I find it odd that someone who only takes headshots under 50 yards due to concerns of fractionally longer animal suffering supports shooting at ranges that all but guarantee longer animal suffering even when executed correctly.

 

[DadSmith]

Setting aside the problems of relatively few people having the actual skills to make shots like that reliably and most bullets being under their minimum performance velocity at that distance, that still leaves the major problem of flight time. Even if the shooter does everything correctly, has the skills, and has the equipment, there is absolutely no guarantee that the animal will even still be where it was when the trigger broke 1.5+ seconds later. Now, add to that the problem of even the best shooters with the best gear having difficulty maintaining an 8" vital zone sized group at that distance under field conditions. Then there is the not so minor problem of finding the animal after even a well placed shot at long range.

I find it odd that someone who only takes headshots under 50 yards due to concerns of fractionally longer animal suffering supports shooting at ranges that all but guarantee longer animal suffering even when executed correctly.

Like I said a man has got to know his limitations.

I've taken head shots upto 100yds but the majority are 50yd or less because of where I do my hunting.

I do support long range hunting if one can do so. I do not put limitations on others because I can't do them and neither should you. It isn't unethical if one can do it.

I guess you are still triggered I shoot deer in the head. For some reason that violates what you consider ethical. So you are putting limits on me because of your sense of ethics or shooting skill maybe both.


My hunting area.
I can shoot 1,800" no problem.

 

[DRob]

Here's a scope that might help with a 1K yard shot. I know a couple of guys who have these and regularly shoot a mile.........from a bench.......not at game.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/march-optics-d80v56t-8x-80x56-riflescope.html

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