LOOKING A COMPACT .45

[Shift Zombie]

That's a rather old ballistic gel pic. With present day self defense ammo you can reasonably expect 14" penetration and an additional 50% expansion from a .45. Though, Hornady just released Critical Duty 135 grain +p 9mm that claims 16" penetration, designed to go through barriers, and outside sources have found it to be true. I plan on doing a few tests myself to see before I start carrying it. Besides, recoil is something like 60% mental. You think it's worse because you expect it to be and your performance is hindered because of it.

 

[jamesg]

It is? I still see "shipping soon"...

Beyond that, I wonder how accurate a .45 with a 3.3" barrel can be?

The PT145 I have is rather accurate with a 3.25" barrel. A subcompact 45 ACP is meant to be a point blank kind of weapon anyways, if I can group several rounds in quick succession within a 6 inch diameter from 10 or so yards away I am good with it. Lots of info out there on 3 inch 'ish subcompact 45ACP

 

[jamesg]

Could I ask why a .45?
Is your wife a tough lady, or has she shot before? I ask because a .45 could turn a new shooter off of shooting, low round capacity, questionable accuracy on compact's.
They are expensive to shoot and if you are new shooters, you could buy 9 or .40 much cheaper allowing you to do more shooting and in the end makeing you a better more confident shooter. (unless you have a pocket full of cash, then I can't relate).
I know my girlfriend loves to shoot, but can't stand .45's
IMO- loud, obnoxious and expensive.... Not saying I wouldn't own one, but probly wouldn't choose it as the family house and range gun myself.

I would counter the "she needs to be tough to shoot a 45" argument with real world evaluation by my wife recently between a 380 Auto and my 45ACP auto. She actually felt the 45 which is a 22 ounce model was much easier to handle and shoot and felt the 380 actually had worse recoil and was less comfortable. Understand she was shooting both for the first time, ever....

 

[00BlasterResto]

I never said she "must" be tough or anything, but it would help. Many "girly" girls I know would not really care for an explosion in their hands, so atleast starting out it can be good to go a bit smaller as not to turn them off of shooting.
Like I said also, This was a real world evaluation from my girlfreind. She loves her p226 (9mm) but hated my p220 compact...
These are just my opinions and I don't know his wife. I know I bought my mother a pk380 because she had a hard time manipulating the slides on many guns, in a self defense or "combat" scenario I want my mom or his wife to be as comfortable with the weapon as possible. I would also say my mom not being able to rack the slide on many auto's would fall under "needing to be tough"
As far as the ballistics, you basicly covered it. They make better rounds in .45 and they make better rounds in 9mm now. either way your doing alright, that is also saying actually goes out a buys some expensive new ammo and not just run of the mill jhp.

I would counter the "she needs to be tough to shoot a 45" argument with real world evaluation by my wife recently between a 380 Auto and my 45ACP auto. She actually felt the 45 which is a 22 ounce model was much easier to handle and shoot and felt the 380 actually had worse recoil and was less comfortable. Understand she was shooting both for the first time, ever....

 

[ipswervy]

I carry a S&W M&P 45c and love it . The grip has interchangable backstraps to adjust the size of it to your hand or hers . Very dependable, the only problem i've had with it is running out of ammo at the shooting range . As far as the kick, doesn't look like much when I shoot but looks bad when my wife or son's fiance shoot it. This also holds true with my dad's Beretta 92 9mm and my brothers 40cal Sig. Both girls hold the guns tight but do not really use a proper grip to hold down the recoil. Local indoor ranges due rent handguns to try, that would be a good place to start, that way she can and you can get a good feel for different types of calibers, styles, metal or plastic, large or small. Different guns in the same caliber will recoil differently, some feeling a little more violent then others. Take your time because it sucks to buy a handgun that you end up not liking.

 

[mrp010]

Modern 9mm rounds (Fed HST and Ranger T esp) have plenty of stopping power even without the +P. There will always be a better round with more stopping power. If she likes 9mm and more importantly shoots it well then why change?

 

[Garrett]

HK45 Compact or HK USP 45 Compact. Reliable and accurate.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Speaking for myself, I discovered that a full-sized .45 is more comfortable to shoot than my subcompact .40 cal, which was more comfortable to shoot than either of the two subcompact 9mm pistols I've owned. Especially with a composite pistol, the .45 seems to be more "push" than "snap".

 

[Tactical Dave]

Larger the gun with any caliber the easier it is to shoot. My full size XD 45 is not worlds different compared to my XD 9 sc. Larger the gun the more recoil it eats.

My sc with the sc mag is hard to hold onto because I have gorilla hands, it is just a 9 but is so small that there is still a bit of snap to it. One of the gun mags I was reading had a full page xds advertisement that said in stores now but apparently not all stores have them.... 9mm and 40 later this year if I remember right. Springfield also makes a micro compact 1911.

Agreed on that ballistics picture, it and the ammo used in it were made when al gore invented the Internet.

 

[cosermann]

That's a rather old ballistic gel pic. . .

Actually, it's rather current, and it's purpose is to illustrate a principle - JHP handgun bullets can be engineered for desired expansion/penetration; which for some time has tended to be the FBI protocol for duty ammo.

It's simple physics: Handgun bullets of similar construction and sectional density, fired at similar velocities, will penetrate similarly.

You can see this reflected in the bullet weights below:

147 gr 9mm sectional density = 0.167.
230 gr 45acp sectional density = 0.162.
180 gr 40s&w sectional density = 0.161.

"Properly designed hollow-point ammunition - regardless of caliber - all perform very close to each other when you take expanded diameter and penetration depth into account."

 

[Tactical Dave]

Earlier tonight I compared a few rounds side by side,

9mm
Federal 115gr hst
Critical defense 115gr (has the red ball in the tip)
Ranger T series 147gr

To say the size difference is impressive is an understatement. However, with the narrower tip of the smaller rounds I could see how it could penetrate easier and do better against say clothing but I plan to do real would type tests later to see for myself.

Comparing the t series 147 to the t series 230 45 is even more impressive, that is why the primary defense round I use is the 230.... I like knowing I am shooting small bricks, I all ways get the heaviest and fastest rounds i can get and right now like the t series untill I can do some testing.


Personally I think research that the Feds do is great but if I am trust my life and my families life with a round I'd rather do my own testing and decid for myself, something I recommend everyone do.

 

[jdwhitak]

Check out the Glock 36. I'm picking one up myself next weekend.

 

[Armed Citizen]

I'm looking at the Taurus pt145, you might check it out.

My EDC is a PT145. Love the gun. Sub-compact 10 round double stack mags and very accurate for a sub-compact, easy conceal. I purchased a 12 round mag from a Taurus 24/7 and it fits perfectly in my PT145, added two rounds and about an 1" to the handle length.

The only thing that SUCKS for me is I still have not found a holster that I like. I normall carry it in IWB holster.

But all in all a solid gun and at an affortable price, for us married men with an ex-wife, four kids, a dog, and an expensive ammo-crack habit that can't afford a Kimber.

 

[pops66goat]

I have a Taurus Millennium PT145 Pro, and love it! You can pick one up for under $400 (used), has a 10 round mag, rail for accessories, safety and great trigger pull. Small and easy to carry/conceal. Ive never had a misfire and it is very accurate.

 

[avengedXT]

You could 1 - wait for the Springfield Armory XDS (XD-SingleStack) .45 ACP micro pistol with a 5+1 capacity, it looks good. I know I personally want one, but have been more than happy with my 9mm M&P Shield for the time being.

But hey, I won't try to talk you out of a .45! My option 2 but more preferred for overall cost-effectiveness and ease of use would be the Kahr CW45. Can be had for under $400 BNIB locally at gun stores, or for $369 + FFL Fee's from online. In my hands, the much more expensive (close to DOUBLE the price of the CW45) is the PM45. The P/PM series are built to a higher quality standard, but it's not to say the CW/CM series Kahr's should be defamed because they share nearly identical internals and are nice and reliable, after you've fired 200+ rounds through them for the break-in period.

As an owner of many Kahr's in the past, I would have to say their triggers are great, once you get the hang of them.

you're still missed, cw40 -> pm9 crimson trace -> p40 covert !

 

[bmbutch]

As stated by a couple if INGOers above:
HK45C. Mine has been 100% out of box thru well over a thousand rounds,

Ergo is incredible & recoil is light for .45 acp. I really like my M&P .45 full size, but my HK45C is better. If u can find a friend or LGS that has one, get a feel first.

Renting & shooting is even better, but I've not seen a HK @ any rental places around me.