Looking for Main Battle Rifle

[Cerberus]

Direct impingement is a giant fail in a shtf scenario. That's why I'd stay away from a standard ar if that's its purpose.

Got any primary research documantation on this, or are you just repeating ignorant internet mythology? I've ran the DI system in some pretty strenuous environments and never had a fail, and definitely not a giant fail. I'm not even that high speed, so if I can anyone can.

 

[seedubs1]

Got any primary research documantation on this, or are you just repeating ignorant internet mythology? I've ran the DI system in some pretty strenuous environments and never had a fail, and definitely not a giant fail. I'm not even that high speed, so if I can anyone can.

All the info is out there available for you. I'm not going to do your research for you.

All I've got to say is that combustion gasses are dumped right into the action on the bolt and carrier. You have to keep a direct impingement system cleaner than a piston system for it to operate. That's a fact. In a shtf scenario, you may have long stints with no way to really clean and lube your rifle. I'll take a piston system for shtf. Have fun operating your ar like a bolt gun after it stops cycling and you're out of lube.

Now, in modern battle, you can clean your gun at reliable enough intervals that this isn't an issue. For the most part, direct impingement isn't an issue. So for our military and your personal range or whatever use, DI is fine.

But if you're getting it for shtf, get a piston system.

Oh, and by the way, some of the piston systems out there will shoot sub moa, and they will do it with .308 ammunition. For shtf, that's what I'd be bringing. My ar would be staying at home.

 

[Lycurgus]

Because it's the cheapest and easiest to manufacture. Seriously the technology to make one was fully developed 200 years ago. That and any uneducated peasant can be taught to use one in about 3 seconds.

almost all guns could have been made 200 years ago.
regardless AKMs are still an effective and reliable weapon.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the OP choosing an AR or something else either.
He has alot of options depending on what pleases his eye and how much he wants to spend.

 

[philbert001]

I was thinking about a M1A going to go to the gunshow tommorow. I want a detachable mag so the garand is out.

Detachable mag!? The M1 is the only rifle to my knowledge that is not only removable, but self ejecting, upon empty! You can't beat it! Lol! Good luck on your search! You really can't go wrong with an AR! .223 may not impress you, but it's been killing our enemies for 40 some odd years! Mine is 1.5 moa, with a garbage DPMS trigger! (Current craziness caused me to burn my trigger budget, just to finish the rifle, so it got the only LPK I could find in stock!)

 

[Tomfoolery]

No, spare me! I've been shooting AKs since 1988, both real deal captures and civilian makes. I ran them exclusively for 4 years just to give them a fair chance. The AK is about the most mythified rifle there is. They will jam, they will break, and most are at best minute of man @ 200 meters. And when SHTF, have no doubt it will be someone armed with an AR that will take your AKM after they nail you from about 200 meters beyond your best range. Or maybe one for the various battle rifles ant then it will be 500 meters beyond.

I'll take a properly buit AR or M14 type any day of the week.

 

[Manatee]

If I was looking for a battle rifle, you'd have to tell me what kind of battle it was going to be. If it's urban, I'd probably want an SBR in 9mm or a shotgun. Or a great defensive pistol.

If it's really gonna be used as opposed to most armchair SHTF stuff, an M1A if you don't like the AR15/M-4 configs.

And there are some awesome AK variants out there right now. Milled receivers too if that's your taste.

 

[jbdhere]

I think the kicker here is the $$$ he wants to spend. If I head out the door to never return I will have my RockRiver LAR-8. .308 Uses FN-FAL Mags both metric and inch. This gun is a tack driver at 200 yards and has never had a FTF. Add a Thunder Trap or a Yankee Hills Titanium .30 Cal. Q.D. Phantom like mine and you have a great Rifle for most any occasion.

 

[Riflemen14]

How about a PTR-91, HK-91 type? Very reliable, low cost mags, accurate at long distances.

 

[RAMMAN2002]

If I was looking for a battle rifle, you'd have to tell me what kind of battle it was going to be. If it's urban, I'd probably want an SBR in 9mm or a shotgun. Or a great defensive pistol.

If it's really gonna be used as opposed to most armchair SHTF stuff, an M1A if you don't like the AR15/M-4 configs.

And there are some awesome AK variants out there right now. Milled receivers too if that's your taste.

Like a SHTF battle. I live out in the country so I want something with good range. But can be adaptable to urban warfare if needed. I think I'm going to go with a .308 AR. I went to the gunshows and seen a couple around my range. Thinking I can offer people what I had and hope someone will go lower. To make my decision better I just got a .308 reloading press and kit from a friend of mine. So I can reload .308 to make it more affordable. I apprciate everyone's opion and time posting to help me out. I really hate to go the AR route but I figure the .308 is what I need.

 

[Cowboy71]

Like a SHTF battle. I live out in the country so I want something with good range. But can be adaptable to urban warfare if needed. I think I'm going to go with a .308 AR. I went to the gunshows and seen a couple around my range. Thinking I can offer people what I had and hope someone will go lower. To make my decision better I just got a .308 reloading press and kit from a friend of mine. So I can reload .308 to make it more affordable. I apprciate everyone's opion and time posting to help me out. I really hate to go the AR route but I figure the .308 is what I need.

That's kind of the way I see things. If all you want is something to kill people at short out to medium distances then sure a .223 AR is the ideal weapon. But in a SHTF situation where you're maybe stuck with one rifle I want something with more reach and the larger .308 caliber if the rifle has to double as hunting gun and not just a defensive weapon.

 

[Cerberus]

All the info is out there available for you. I'm not going to do your research for you.

All I've got to say is that combustion gasses are dumped right into the action on the bolt and carrier. You have to keep a direct impingement system cleaner than a piston system for it to operate. That's a fact. In a shtf scenario, you may have long stints with no way to really clean and lube your rifle. I'll take a piston system for shtf. Have fun operating your ar like a bolt gun after it stops cycling and you're out of lube.

Now, in modern battle, you can clean your gun at reliable enough intervals that this isn't an issue. For the most part, direct impingement isn't an issue. So for our military and your personal range or whatever use, DI is fine.

But if you're getting it for shtf, get a piston system.

Oh, and by the way, some of the piston systems out there will shoot sub moa, and they will do it with .308 ammunition. For shtf, that's what I'd be bringing. My ar would be staying at home.

Ah, so no real experience with the system then? Anyone can write anything, and anyone can read anything they wish to. I see you have no realistic concept of just exactly what SHTF will entail? I guess putting over 5000 rounds thru one without any cleaning, or firing well over quadrouple combat load without lube means absolutely nothing to you?
I have lugged one thru nasty jungles without one failing.
I have lugged one thru snow up to my wasit in -35 degree cold without fail.
I have crawled thru knee deep mud and slept in muddy holes without one failing.
I have had sand in the action from beach landings without failure.

I really don't think you can imagine what I've put these rifles thru, but I don't think you really want to learn anything beyond what you think you know.

 

[churchmouse]

Spare me

I already just stated there is nothing wrong with any of the choices you just mentioned. We're not going to get into a pissing match. It's been done and there is no winning. This thread is asking for opinions of choices and every opinion here is a biased opinion. "A real battle rifle"? Who here is buying a NFA Class III weapon.....? The OP?

You don't like my AKs? That is fine. You can promptly send me your real name and if the SHTF ever I will remember to never let you use one of mine if you need it. Deal? Pompous gun posturing never gets old.


I'm saying AKM. You don't like my selection and disagree with me, tough. Don't argue me though, it's pointless.

Easy big boy.....I did not start anything just stating a personal preference not unlike you have done. We have burned up a butt load of 7.62X39 but sold all of those platforms in favor of the AR and Socom.
Sounds like you are a bit sensitive. If I was trying to start a fight or argument you would now it. How many discussions do you start out with "Please"
Shoot all the Russian, Prussian Yugo pieces you like. I could really care less. Really. You make solid points and I can see the passion you have for these guns but chill out.

My real name....Honestly, why would I even consider that. I am not hard to find at all.

As to a SHTF scenario...well, we will be fine believe me. I have no doubt you will be as well.

 

[Indy 1911]

I like Mini 14 or 30

 

[bmyers]

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.

I think my reply was mistaken. I understand the FAL, m1a, etc. are great rifles as are the m1's.

I was merely stating that for a shtf battle rifle, most rifles chambered in .308 are too heavy, hard to keep and carry a lot of rounds for, etc.

 

[HavokCycle]

Ah, so no real experience with the system then? Anyone can write anything, and anyone can read anything they wish to. I see you have no realistic concept of just exactly what SHTF will entail? I guess putting over 5000 rounds thru one without any cleaning, or firing well over quadrouple combat load without lube means absolutely nothing to you?
I have lugged one thru nasty jungles without one failing.
I have lugged one thru snow up to my wasit in -35 degree cold without fail.
I have crawled thru knee deep mud and slept in muddy holes without one failing.
I have had sand in the action from beach landings without failure.

I really don't think you can imagine what I've put these rifles thru, but I don't think you really want to learn anything beyond what you think you know.

so.. with all due respect.. lugged what?

 

[Giddaltti]

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.

.308 is not designed to be a battle caliber and thus few rifles are "battle". They are great but heavy. Wake up and buy an ar. If you don't want one for some reason, for $1500, buy a stamped ak, some decent furniture, and a case of ammo and roll on.


Edit: .308 is a battle caliber. I just think it may not suit your needs best as a primary battle rifle.

I missed a heart beat! While in Vietnam my uncle used a 30-06, 300 and 308 Sniper rifles during his first tour.

A .308 is a nice rifle, AR style or Bolt action. I love the bolt action. Ruger has a nice one under 1k worth taking a look.

 

[6mm Shoot]

Someone above said Ruger Mini 14 or 30. They are piston operated. I had the 30 and gave it to my son. He loves it. This past year he got me a AR with the piston operated action. I understand that you don't want a AR. I have no problem with them. I just prefer bolt guns or single shots.

The M1A is a great rifle but I don't think you can get one for $1500. The cheapest one I could find was $1800. You can get a M1 carbine for around $700 or more. That is a 30 carbine round. Not any thing like the 30-06. Still they are cool. It is much closer to the 10mm hand gun round. There are a lot of hand gun caliber carbines like the Kel-Tek SUB 2000. Great little rifle. For what they cost you could get two and still have money left over for ammo and extras.

The 308 is very close to the 30-06. The only problem I see is that the price you are willing to spend limits you. If you are willing to go with a bolt rifle you could get a good one for around a grand an use the rest of the money for a scope. Savage makes some good ones. I picked up one with the accu-trigger and accu-stock for around $600 and picked up a Weaver tactical 4X20 scope for around the same price as the rifle. It made a very accurate package. The scope is in the first focal plain.

 

[Fawkes]

M1A. If I had to choose one rifle out of them all it would be my M14/M1A. LOVE it. In this environment might be hard to score one though in the price range, maybe a Polytech version and those are decent with some caveats.