MA. Homeowner charged with Murder for shooting "burglar"

[Bill of Rights]

I don't know that I'd go so far as "deserve to die". Basing all of what I say on the comments so far, I'd want to see the door and see what the homeowner saw. I'd bring up disparity of force, as was mentioned, and the fact that warnings had been given.

If the homeowner could not actually see the person into whom he pumped lead, I'd agree he was in the wrong. That said, he should not have to wait until the door is completely gone as a barrier to defend his person and his home. Voluntary drunkenness is not, to my knowledge, a defense in any of the 50 states for criminal misdeeds.

I also was going to mention the Joe Biden defense, but reps to cbhausen for saying it first.

This does beg a question though, in my mind: For many years, in my ignorance of such things, I thought that if I was going to have a shotgun (thankfully, I did not at the time, and learned better before I had one) the first shell in it should be rock salt, so that it hurts, but does not kill. Yes, I really did think something that dumb. However... Had the homeowner used such a shell, would it have been more defensible, given all other circumstances unchanged?

I hope the homeowner gets someone on his jury who knows about jury nullification and gives full appropriate weight to all the facts of the case.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I am really surprised at the number of people who immediately appear to be giving every benefit of the doubt to the attempted home invader, including using voluntary intoxication as a justification.

Attempted is the key word here. Some Castle Doctrine states allow lethal force to prevent attempted home invasions, some only after the breaking and entering has occurred. What is legal is determined by reading the state's law. In Massachusetts, it appears that this shooting is illegal, was purposeful, and is therefore at a minimum, voluntary manslaughter.

For me, personally, I would not fire through an unbroached exterior door. I view Castle Doctrine laws allowing the presumption of a right to self defense without minutely second guessing what transpires halting an invader inside the home (or car, garage, business, etc). That presumption does not, IMO, hold up if there is an intact exterior door between the homeowner and would-be attacker(s). A "finishing shot" likewise broaches that presumption, for another example.

Others have mentioned the disparity of numbers... Size the tube of 00 buck, mag of 5.56, or full size 9mm/.40/.45 accordingly. They still have to make it through a single doorway to find and accost a homeowner who has taken a tactical position.

 

[AA&E]

1PM - HUGE difference.

Shoot, you're right, I misread.

Yeah, that does make a lot of difference and is probably a big reason he was arrested on this.

Not a lot of home invasions in broad daylight. Much harder to justify that your life was threatened.

I don't see the relevance of the time of day. It was daylight morning hours when the pregnant pastors wife in Indianapolis was raped/murdered in her own home.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Of course it doesn't. But in broad daylight, it's much easier for the resident to assess the threat. Resident escalated the situation ay too quickly.

Im sorry but I strongly disagree. There can be other factors as to why the homeowner felt threatened. Maybe he was in a previous attack to which now he has a gun, maybe he was just waking up after a nap, maybe he saw guy(s) at his front door, maybe he's been watching the news for the past five years...

 

[jamil]

Im sorry but I strongly disagree. There can be other factors as to why the homeowner felt threatened. Maybe he was in a previous attack to which now he has a gun, maybe he was just waking up after a nap, maybe he saw guy(s) at his front door, maybe he's been watching the news for the past five years...

We're talking about could haves.

Certainly it's a factor if it's dark and difficult to see, and during a time period when the reasons someone could be pounding on your door are fewer. But as we hear more facts, we can then make the decision about how much, if any, impact the time of day should have on the decisions made.

 

[KLB]

Well, the OP article pretty much sucks for any real detail. I found another that has a lot more detail of what happened.
Court documents reveal new details on Chicopee shooting death - Western Mass News - WGGB/WSHM

According to court documents, Lovell was awoken by his wife saying two people were banging on their door, trying to break into their house.


That's when Lovell gained access to his secured, loaded firearm from his bedroom safe. He then went into his kitchen where he observed through his kitchen window a white male carrying footwear walking from Lovell's backyard to his side kitchen door, located under a car port.


Court documents show that Lovell then yelled "Get the [expletive] out" and "stay the [expletive] out."


As Francisco continued to knock on the door, Lovell claimed that the glass pane broke and that's when he raised his loaded Smith and Wesson firearm and shot one round through the glass of the door.

Still rather hard for me to make a decision one way or another.

Looks like there were two guys not three.
Only one was at the door where the shooting occurred.
It sounds like the homeowner could see the guy he shot, when he shot him.
The homeowner was awakened by his wife telling him that someone was trying to break in.

One thing that is hard for me to understand is the perception of breaking in as opposed to pounding on a door.

Since speculation is so popular here, maybe the homeowner had his finger on the trigger and fired reflexively when the pain of glass broke.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

We're talking about could haves.

Certainly it's a factor if it's dark and difficult to see, and during a time period when the reasons someone could be pounding on your door are fewer. But as we hear more facts, we can then make the decision about how much, if any, impact the time of day should have on the decisions made.

Oh yeah I agree could haves are everywhere around here. I will be interested in the outcome of this.

 

[j706]

Who shoots through a closed door at someone that you have no idea of who they are? I am willing to bet the shooter in this incident is wishing he had never touched a gun. I would think most people are much smarter than this. Just think if would have been a family member. Scares me.

 

[voidsherpa]

Who shoots through a closed door at someone that you have no idea of who they are?

I'd say this guy should have started a bit earlier.

[video=youtube;5bsAMSQ13bY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY[/video]

 

[KLB]

Who shoots through a closed door at someone that you have no idea of who they are? I am willing to bet the shooter in this incident is wishing he had never touched a gun. I would think most people are much smarter than this. Just think if would have been a family member. Scares me.

It sounds like he shot him through the glass.

A big piece of this puzzle is that Lovell stated he shot his gun after a glass pane broke on his door.


The Hampden County District Attorney's office said that as of right now, it is unclear if the glass broke because the teen was knocking on the door or if it broke when fired his gun through the glass.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'd say this guy should have started a bit earlier.

[video=youtube;5bsAMSQ13bY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY[/video]

Nine seconds from first kick to first shot. Seven kicks to break the door in completely, and he could have gotten in before that, too. From where your gun is now, can you have it in hand, ready to fire in nine seconds?

Converse question to ask the anti gunners: Can you even make and complete the 911 call in nine seconds? I guarantee the cops can't be there that fast.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[AA&E]

Nine seconds from first kick to first shot. Seven kicks to break the door in completely, and he could have gotten in before that, too. From where your gun is now, can you have it in hand, ready to fire in nine seconds?

Converse question to ask the anti gunners: Can you even make and complete the 911 call in nine seconds? I guarantee the cops can't be there that fast.

Blessings,
Bill

I don't have any exterior doors that are as flimsy as the one in that video. I am not sure if that is the norm in apartment complexes.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I don't have any exterior doors that are as flimsy as the one in that video. I am not sure if that is the norm in apartment complexes.

I hear you... I've handled cardboard sturdier than that!

 

[cobber]

Nine seconds from first kick to first shot. Seven kicks to break the door in completely, and he could have gotten in before that, too. From where your gun is now, can you have it in hand, ready to fire in nine seconds?

Converse question to ask the anti gunners: Can you even make and complete the 911 call in nine seconds? I guarantee the cops can't be there that fast.

Blessings,
Bill

Maybe the reliance on 911 by some is Darwin's way of cleaning the stupid out of the gene pool?

 

[jamil]

Maybe the reliance on 911 by some is Darwin's way of cleaning the stupid out of the gene pool?

If that's the case, Darwin needs to become more efficient. They're gaining on us.

 

[Jimb]

You also can stop entry into your house.

I'm not sure if I would shoot through a closed door...providing the windows are too small to get through. But, I do know that it's much easier to review and draw conclusions than it will be if that same person ever found themselves in the same situation.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm not sure if I would shoot through a closed door...providing the windows are too small to get through. But, I do know that it's much easier to review and draw conclusions than it will be if that same person ever found themselves in the same situation.

Yes. I'd rather not shoot through a closed door either.
But, we really don't know much from the article.
So, it depends on the situation.

 

[K_W]

So they mistake which house they are going to in broad daylight?

In the days before pocket cell phones my from out of state aunt and uncle accidentaly went to a house on the neighboring block that was situated on the same quadrant, with similar house number and layout. They rang the bell and peeked in the windows and even tried the handles. The girl inside who didn't recognize them called the police who showed up while my aunt and uncle where on the car phone with us. Fortunately it got straighted out peacefully.

 

[KLB]

In the days before pocket cell phones my from out of state aunt and uncle accidentaly went to a house on the neighboring block that was situated on the same quadrant, with similar house number and layout. They rang the bell and peeked in the windows and even tried the handles. The girl inside who didn't recognize them called the police who showed up while my aunt and uncle where on the car phone with us. Fortunately it got straighted out peacefully.

There are a lot of sub-divisions out there with only a few different floor plans for the houses in them. It is not hard to mistake one for another, especially if you are intoxicated.

 

[singlesix]

There are a lot of sub-divisions out there with only a few different floor plans for the houses in them. It is not hard to mistake one for another, especially if you are intoxicated.

Yup I live in one of those vinyl ghettos.