Madison WI policy: they will harass people who follow state OC law

[Scutter01]

How a disorderly conduct statute can trump the US Constitution, or even Wisconsin's own constitution, is beyond me. The right to bear arms in the Wisconsin constitution is fairly easy to understand:

Right to keep and bear arms. SECTION 25. [As created
Nov. 1998] The people have the right to keep and bear arms for
security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.
[1995 J.R. 27, 1997 J.R. 21, vote November 1998]

Here's your answer:

Chief Wray wants to make clear: It is the department's wish that concerned citizens call 911 when they see armed subjects.

The U.S. Constitution doesn't apply to subjects, only citizens.

 

[CarmelHP]

"Disorderly conduct" is policespeak for "you didn't do anything wrong but we don't like what you did."

And, it's time to start suing the officer's individually. They've been told by the AG that open carry is not DO, and is not illegal. There is no good faith reason to keep making these arrests. They are not entitled to qualified immunity.

 

[Stubborn Yankee]

Unfortunately this situation will happen over and over because Wisconsin has no concealed carry law. I wonder how many real crimes are going uninvestigated because Madison cops choose to harass legal gun owners.

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

"She went on to say that they all appeared calm, but noted "people who shoot up restaurants also look calm before it happens."

Really? I wonder how many restaurant shootings she's been through. She seems quite the expert in restaurant shootings.

 

[Indy317]

Can't wait for the outcome on this incident. So two were giving summons for obstruction for failing to refuse to ID themselves, though there is no law in WI that states a person must ID themselves if suspected of a crime (In this case, right or wrong, the officers are basically using a felon in possession law as their initial reason for the detainment).

So then the state decides to tear up the obstruction tickets for the two guys, and then sends all five guys disorderly conduct tickets.

Wisconsin sounds like New Mexico, and the federal courts have already ruled on this issue to an extent. In the New Mexico case, the guy got a $20K or so settlement. However, another court in Mass. (where else) said that even if an activity is legal, the police have a right to stop and detain a person and arrest them for disorderly conduct. The lawyer tried to compare it as a black man walking in a white neighborhood. The judge admitted he/she understood what the lawyer was getting at, but it was "different." Basically I believe the Mass. guy got off criminally, but the cops were given immunity and I don't think he won his lawsuit.

 

[Woodsman]

Unfortunately this situation will happen over and over because Wisconsin has no concealed carry law. I wonder how many real crimes are going uninvestigated because Madison cops choose to harass legal gun owners.

This is expected to change once we get rid of the Berkley hippie acting as governor. I had a long discussion with a trainer the other night who felt this will be rapidly corrected once we get a more conservative governor (well, conservative for WI that is).

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

"She went on to say that they all appeared calm, but noted "people who shoot up restaurants also look calm before it happens."

Really? I wonder how many restaurant shootings she's been through. She seems quite the expert in restaurant shootings.

YouTube - Pulp Fiction Restaurant Scene - Long

 

[critter592]

Just like she was saying! Calm just before they shoot up the place.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Here's your answer:
The U.S. Constitution doesn't apply to subjects, only citizens.

While I know you know this, Scutter, for those who might not, "subject" is police-speak for "person with whom we've had contact but is not suspected of anything...officially" (sometimes because they don't have enough evidence yet to do so). You hear it on shows like "Criminal Minds", referring to the "Unsub", or "unknown subject".

I do get the comparison, though, to the description of a person "subject" to the King's laws.

If perchance I''ve misstated that definition above, I welcome correction by any LEO (or former LEO) who knows better.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Loco179]

Yep time to start civil action against officers instead of cities. I think this would send a message to them that they need to realize its time to stop.

 

[INGunGuy]

Just like in merry ole' UK

'Koran burning': men expect to be charged with inciting racial hatred - Telegraph

Sounds to me like a freedom of speech issue...

INGunGuy

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Just like in merry ole' UK

'Koran burning': men expect to be charged with inciting racial hatred - Telegraph

Sounds to me like a freedom of speech issue...

INGunGuy

Does the UK have freedom of speech? I'm seriously asking. If this was in the US I'd say the people involved would probably have one heck of a lawsuit but in the UK?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Just like in merry ole' UK

'Koran burning': men expect to be charged with inciting racial hatred - Telegraph

Sounds to me like a freedom of speech issue...

INGunGuy

UK subjects don't have freedom of speech rights.

Thank God (or mother nature, or your mom) you woke up here this morning. It's imperfect but better than most of the rest of the world.

 

[rambone]

Perpective of discussion on LE site:

2 Wi carry members ticketed - American Police Beat Forums powered by OfficerResource | Law Enforcement Forums, Police Forums

People on these types of sites.... really need a lesson in liberty.

I love how they all think that they are pro-2A, then bash people for exercising the 2nd Amendment and openly advocating more gun control.

Way to go.

They're like little children testing boundaries and pushing buttons.

Instead they run around with handguns, AR-15's (Ponderosa incident), voice and video recorders just looking to cause a scene and have a run in with LE....just so they cry wolf about their civil liberties and constitutional rights being violated.

Keep up the good work guys. Every time they refuse to show ID...hit them with DC. Eventually they'll get the idea.

I am all for the 2nd amendment (I own a rifle and pistol and hope to purchase many more).

I just think open carry is fairly ridiculous for anyone not wearing a uniform.

can soemone please explain how you verify if someone has a right to carry a firearm without checking their ID.

What I don't understand, and nobody has ever been able to answer, is if someone has a CCW permit (which I assume rbur does as he has mentioned a permit a couple times), why on earth would they open carry when they can concealed carry?

Oddly enough, even as a pro 2nd cop and pro gun regular joe, the argument I use against those who try the old "the 2nd is only for militias" is why I favor the government involvement as to training.

 

[Whosyer]

Maybe an email campaign would enlighten Chief Noble Wray?

police@cityofmadison.com

Wisconsin Carry has filed a lawsuit against the city, and the chief.
Wisconsin Carry Files Federal Suit Against City Of Madison, Wisconsin and Madison Police Chief Noble Wray THE WAKING GIANT

More info here. Funds are being raised to fight the police departments policy.

Police charge five "legal" open carry citizens in Wisconsin - victims need your support

 

[Rookie]

UPDATE!

Wisconsin Carry, Inc: Press release regarding Madison 5 Culvers Incident

 

[CVMA544]

UPDATE!

Wisconsin Carry, Inc: Press release regarding Madison 5 Culvers Incident

Good, now the Chief needs to go, and just to keep the City's attention a payout for principle.


Next I would guess the City will write an ordinance restricting carry.

 

[SirRealism]

Thanks for posting the update. I was glad to see that the attorney stated publicly that the disturbance was created by the cops, not by the folks minding their own business and eating dinner.

 

[revsaxon]

So this is the part where the officers get disturbing the peace tickets right?

Right?

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Holy Moly!

"she further stated that she thought it was very odd that these individuals with guns would be at a family place. She noted she felt somewhat "rattled" and also "felt uneasy" about the subjects having the handguns at the family restaurant. She went on to say that they all appeared calm, but noted "people who shoot up restaurants also look calm before it happens." She did state that she was very concerned that if she didn't make the call and something did happen, she would feel horrible."

How dare they make this idiot "feel" rattled and on top of the poor old bitty feeling rattled, they went on to make her feel uneasy to boot! HOW DARE THEY!

The last resturant shooting she attended, she didn't feel rattled or uneasy but she did pay particular attention to the fact that the maniac that shot up the place was calm.

If I were one of those dudes, the city would be financing my next several firearm, ammo, range memberships, etc. purchases.

I hope they sue the hooey out of them!