Marion County Water Ban

[level.eleven]

Hornady, do you have an answer to this or are you going to continue to ignore it?

I was going to post this but I thought it would come across as being a...uhh...richard.

 

[88GT]

I was going to post this but I thought it would come across as being a...uhh...richard.

I'm sure he already considers me a witch, so I've got nothing to lose.

 

[hornadylnl]

Hornady, do you have an answer to this or are you going to continue to ignore it?

Can they not increase prices as supply runs low? Or is our only choice force?

 

[88GT]

Can they not increase prices as supply runs low? Or is our only choice force?

Yes, they could. But you wanted prices based off of supply and demand, a condition that is only met under competition to deliver the goods. (I don't know what it takes to changes the rates though.)

Independent of supplies running low, let's assume we've had record rains and we can't give the stuff away (figure of speech only), just how exactly do you propose a price point is determined for a product that has a single supplier?

My question goes beyond the issue of supplies running low. You created a situation of competing influences and I want to know how you would reconcile them.

But taking it a step farther and introducing a factor that alters supply input, how do you figure out what the price point is that would reduce usage enough to satisfy conservation goals?

 

[MrsGungho]

Can they not increase prices as supply runs low? Or is our only choice force?

having someone that worked for citizens at one time in that are, no they can not raise prices when supply runs low.

Since a voluntary ban was in effect and people were still using 80 some million gallons of water a day to irrigate their yards, yeah I'd say force is the only choice.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Can they not increase prices as supply runs low? Or is our only choice force?

They can't because prices are regulated by the Utility Regulatory Commission. Whether you agree or disagree, those are the restrictions they're operating under.

 

[hornadylnl]

Yes, they could. But you wanted prices based off of supply and demand, a condition that is only met under competition to deliver the goods. (I don't know what it takes to changes the rates though.)

Independent of supplies running low, let's assume we've had record rains and we can't give the stuff away (figure of speech only), just how exactly do you propose a price point is determined for a product that has a single supplier?

My question goes beyond the issue of supplies running low. You created a situation of competing influences and I want to know how you would reconcile them.

But taking it a step farther and introducing a factor that alters supply input, how do you figure out what the price point is that would reduce usage enough to satisfy conservation goals?

Gradually increase prices until the desired usage occurs.

 

[hornadylnl]

They can't because prices are regulated by the Utility Regulatory Commission. Whether you agree or disagree, those are the restrictions they're operating under.

So another layer of government bureaucracy prevents it. If prices are regulated, why am I paying about 30% more for REMC than I was my old municipality? I think the actual kwh price is the same but a single fee is $28 every month on my REMC bill.

 

[MrsGungho]

Gradually increase prices until the desired usage occurs.

it can't be done, not on the drop of a dime anyway.

what part of prices are regulated by the Utility Regulatory Commission do you not understand.

 

[hornadylnl]

it can't be done, not on the drop of a dime anyway.

what part of prices are regulated by the Utility Regulatory Commission do you not understand.

So you're telling me bureaucracy is getting in the way? Say it ain't so.

I think I'll go play golf on a nice green fairway tomorrow. Or I could go watch an Indians game on their beautiful field. Gotta save the water for the important stuff.

 

[88GT]

Gradually increase prices until the desired usage occurs.

It's still control. Force is control. Price fixing is control. Neither are free market influences on pricing.

Let's try this again: forgetting the shortage, what would be the market price the CONSUMERS would set by their actions for a unit of water if only one supplier of water is available?

Let me just save you the trouble: you can't have a free market price for a product that is supplied by a single entity.

 

[jd4320t]

So you're telling me bureaucracy is getting in the way? Say it ain't so.

I think I'll go play golf on a nice green fairway tomorrow. Or I could go watch an Indians game on their beautiful field. Gotta save the water for the important stuff.

Don't forget the parks. You have to talk about them too if you want to play that game.

 

[hornadylnl]

Don't forget the parks. You have to talk about them too if you want to play that game.

Yes, we can't leave out the park spray areas or topping off pools.

 

[MrsGungho]

So you're telling me bureaucracy is getting in the way? Say it ain't so.

I think I'll go play golf on a nice green fairway tomorrow. Or I could go watch an Indians game on their beautiful field. Gotta save the water for the important stuff.

those places also rely on the green grass for their income. My yard, my neighbors yard etc don't. Big difference there.
Municipalities, after reading a bit more, are only running water in the spray grounds, that would be a place for kids to go stand under the water and cool off. And that is the reason it is left alone, it is a heat relief. They have sensors and if no one is there, they don't run.

I also disagree with raising everyones prices for water because some feel the need to use 80some million gallons of water a day to irrigate their yards. Why should I have to pay more per unit when I am not abusing the system? I use what is necessary, no more, no less. So yes I am glad bureaucracy is getting the way.

 

[hornadylnl]

those places also rely on the green grass for their income. My yard, my neighbors yard etc don't. Big difference there.
Municipalities, after reading a bit more, are only running water in the spray grounds, that would be a place for kids to go stand under the water and cool off. And that is the reason it is left alone, it is a heat relief. They have sensors and if no one is there, they don't run.

I also disagree with raising everyones prices for water because some feel the need to use 80some million gallons of water a day to irrigate their yards. Why should I have to pay more per unit when I am not abusing the system? I use what is necessary, no more, no less. So yes I am glad bureaucracy is getting the way.

And I don't want to lose my investment in my yard because some people want to take 20 minute showers or fill a garden tub.

 

[jd4320t]

The people who water their lawns use water in their houses too.

 

[88GT]

The people who water their lawns use water in their houses too.

Welcome to about a dozen or so posts upward!

 

[MrsGungho]

And I don't want to lose my investment in my yard because some people want to take 20 minute showers or fill a garden tub.

well since you don't live in Marion County, you really don't have to worry about that now do you?
Water to drink, bathe, cook, fight fires etc or green grass... hmm I am going to go for the first.
if Marion County continued on the path it was going, the first would have been in jeopardy.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Hornadylnl, I suspect your idealism - which we're sort of forcing you to defend - is getting in the way of common sense here. No one entity can control the aquifer which supplies well water to you, so you don't have to pay for it (except the costs to bring it to the surface for your use). But you can't control its level and you CAN use it up. In the case of water sources in the West, the range wars over land and especially water rights are legendary. Here in the East, the mechanism that has evolved makes various companies the sole providers of water used for personal and commercial uses. The mechanism that has evolved to control that potential monopoly is the governmental regulatory commission. They set the rates, based on factors designed to ensure the utility charges the lowest possible rate while still being able to stay in business and provide a modest profit. As utility companies approach the utilities commissions for rate increases, citizens coalitions oppose such rates and the utilities are required to prove that they need the increase. Other than discarding this evolutionary system for carving up utilities into smaller sections of water providers (difficult to do with a river or reservoir), I'm not sure how the system could be made better.