Match Attendance

[Jaybird1980]

I agree with most of your thoughts except the one in red.
yes, even the “production” division is getting racier in the gear used, but 95% of it comes down to the shooter. I still run a G34 for production and a G35 for limited. A few years back my G34 wasn’t running and I won the IN state production title with a G19. I couldn’t do that today, because I’m out of practice, not because of the gun.

shoot both a few times. Then decide what fits you best. (Though only one let’s you shoot more than one w.o joining)

-rvb

ETA several at our club Uspsa match shoot their carry guns in their carry rigs. Some even register in open so they can keep lights on the guns. ... I don’t even know if you can mount a light in a gun in IDPA, many years ago at least there was no division where that was allowed.

I definitely believe that it's not the gun that is holding back 95% of shooters, and the other 5% are gonna kill it no matter what they shoot. Nils Jonasson is out there kicking ass with a Canik!

As far as the new shooter part, I think uspsa is a bit easier, because there is less you have to try to remember during your run. Like RVB said you don't need the fancy gear. I shot the first 3 years with a bladetech holster and mag carriers on my regular belt. I switched to a competition belt, but it didn't make me shoot any better, just easier to put on and off. The most important thing for a new person is to just get started.

 

[peterock]

I would say that IDPA puts a major emphasis on accuracy as every point down is a full second where uspsa scoring allows you to shoot fast because C hits really don’t hurt your run that much as long as you are fast.

The rules for idpa aren’t as hard to understand as many make them out to be.

The lower round count is definitely an advantage lately

 

[04FXSTS]

I have always shot IDPA so can only speak to that sport. If I can understand the rules then anyone can learn them without any trouble. Won't go into them but some of the rule changes over the past few years has IMHO made things a bit simpler and better. One of the rule changes lets you shoot three matches before joining instead of just one. From what I have seen not all clubs adhere to that rule anyway. Jim.

 

[gregkl]

Uspsa you usually get to shoot the stage as you want, where as idpa usually has a certain order you shoot the stage in. (as the targets present themselves to you) idpa has rules on where to reload, having to retain mags that are not empty, shooting from cover, etc. Uspsa is as fast as you can shoot it.

I started shooting uspsa with a Glock 19, mostly because match days fit my schedule at the time.
I still mainly use a pretty much stock G17, mostly because I know I can take it apart and get it running with tools and spare parts in the range bag, verses carrying a spare pistol.

I agree with most of your thoughts except the one in red.
yes, even the “production” division is getting racier in the gear used, but 95% of it comes down to the shooter. I still run a G34 for production and a G35 for limited. A few years back my G34 wasn’t running and I won the IN state production title with a G19. I couldn’t do that today, because I’m out of practice, not because of the gun.

shoot both a few times. Then decide what fits you best. (Though only one let’s you shoot more than one w.o joining)

-rvb

ETA several at our club Uspsa match shoot their carry guns in their carry rigs. Some even register in open so they can keep lights on the guns. ... I don’t even know if you can mount a light in a gun in IDPA, many years ago at least there was no division where that was allowed.

Thanks. I'll give it some thought. I have shot a couple IDPA matches and steel challenge, but not a USPSA. I won't be buying more guns if I get into any type of action pistol. I have my gun and it will be what I use. I will be doing it for the practice, fun and comradery, not to win trophies. I'm pretty sure I could hand my M&P (G19 equiv.) to Jerry Miculek and in it's current state he would win the local match. Plus a 2.0 Compact with a Red dot probably falls into some division that puts me at a disadvantage anyway.

My goal is to create sufficient finish wear on one pistol so I know I have put some time in with it.

I get it that equipment can take a better shooter and move them up a few percentage points, and I never want gear to my limiting factor, but a stock pistol will outshoot me for a very long time...

 

[downrange72]

Thanks. I'll give it some thought. I have shot a couple IDPA matches and steel challenge, but not a USPSA. I won't be buying more guns if I get into any type of action pistol. I have my gun and it will be what I use. I will be doing it for the practice, fun and comradery, not to win trophies. I'm pretty sure I could hand my M&P (G19 equiv.) to Jerry Miculek and in it's current state he would win the local match. Plus a 2.0 Compact with a Red dot probably falls into some division that puts me at a disadvantage anyway.

My goal is to create sufficient finish wear on one pistol so I know I have put some time in with it.

I get it that equipment can take a better shooter and move them up a few percentage points, and I never want gear to my limiting factor, but a stock pistol will outshoot me for a very long time...

I shoot uspsa and a little steel challenge. I got into the CZ Shadow race. I bought two. I even bought a CZ 75 c so I'd have a similar carry gun

CZ Shadows are now safe queens. C traded in for M&P 2.0 4.25. Later bought its sibling 3.6. I never had an opportunity to master the double action pull (required for production 1st shot). And honestly, the only advantage is the weight and I'd say its minimal. I was humbled at a defensive pistol class when I found out I wasn't very proficient with the cz and was told by the instructor to trash it and get a striker fired gun (cedar top has a similar post in tactics and training). I already had experience with MPs so I went back. The next two years I have had to eat crow and tell the same instructor he was right. He likes to rub it in my face too.

So there is a hint in there for the Shadow 1st generations I have. I dont want to upset the moderator nazi in classifieds again. (This will probably get reported and ill catch another ban)

I know several that use uspsa as carry gun practice. I primarily don't, but do shoot both MPs regularly with my competition guns when I practice.

So whatever your carry gun is of choice, bring it and minimum of 3 mags, and run it under some timer stress of your choosing

You will find out that your serpa retention holster is trash and you will receive a lot of opinions on which holster you should get and how to defeat the retention button to finish the day.

 

[longbeard]

Thanks. I'll give it some thought. I have shot a couple IDPA matches and steel challenge, but not a USPSA. I won't be buying more guns if I get into any type of action pistol. I have my gun and it will be what I use. I will be doing it for the practice, fun and comradery, not to win trophies. I'm pretty sure I could hand my M&P (G19 equiv.) to Jerry Miculek and in it's current state he would win the local match. Plus a 2.0 Compact with a Red dot probably falls into some division that puts me at a disadvantage anyway.

My goal is to create sufficient finish wear on one pistol so I know I have put some time in with it.

I get it that equipment can take a better shooter and move them up a few percentage points, and I never want gear to my limiting factor, but a stock pistol will outshoot me for a very long time...

Time spent being intimidated of participation is time wasted. Admittedly, it's a scary first step, and compounded by people standing around watching you shoot. However, we were all there once too.
You have the right attitude on equipment. Usually it's the opposite. People rush out and spend a ton before they show up. Then, a few months in they regret their purchase.

 

[gregkl]

So whatever your carry gun is of choice, bring it and minimum of 3 mags, and run it under some timer stress of your choosing

That was going to be next question: how many mag holders do I need? When I see USPSA competitors, they seem to have them wrapped around their side. I have enough mags and a decent holster(I don't run a holster with mechanical retention devices other than a tension screw).

 

[longbeard]

That was going to be next question: how many mag holders do I need? When I see USPSA competitors, they seem to have them wrapped around their side. I have enough mags and a decent holster(I don't run a holster with mechanical retention devices other than a tension screw).

To start, you can put the mags in your back pocket and reload from there without spending a dime. Regular competitors generally wear a two belt system and purchase mag pouches for the belt. There a many brands and styles available. It's beneficial to shoot a little and see what people are doing to inform you on what, if any, purchases you might need to make. See my post above about spending before you show up.

 

[Jaybird1980]

That was going to be next question: how many mag holders do I need? When I see USPSA competitors, they seem to have them wrapped around their side. I have enough mags and a decent holster(I don't run a holster with mechanical retention devices other than a tension screw).

You can get by with 3 mag carriers, and then your load and make ready mag in a pocket. Then after you get started you can change your setup around to your liking

 

[downrange72]

You can get by with 3 mag carriers, and then your load and make ready mag in a pocket. Then after you get started you can change your setup around to your liking

I say a minimum if 3 mags for limited division. If you are shooting 9mm, you will eventually want to shoot production and will need 4-5 mags

Shooting Limited is encouraged in the beginning. Less mag changes and no equipment specific placement of holster and mag pouches

 

[2-Alpha]

I haven’t shot IPDA, but did shoot a rifle match that used some of their rules, and got burned on a stage with a penalty for dropping a mag with 2 rounds in it on my way to the next position. So like someone else said, I would steer a new shooter to USPSA first so there’s less to remember during the run, no worry about concealment, etc. If they don’t already have mag carriers or much carry experience then I steer them to a steel match first so they don’t have to draw or reload on the clock.

I shoot USPSA and Coach’s carry gun matches with my EDC, knowing that I would place better with a bigger/easier-to-shoot gun, but I’m there for the practice under stress, not to win. For USPSA I have to add mag carriers I don’t CCW with to have enough rounds on me, but other than that, and sometimes “gaming” the choice of mag size (starting with an 8 or 10 instead of the 7-rd I CCW with for example) to avoid doing more reloads than everyone else, I’m running my CCW gear.

 

[Trapper Jim]

No matter if it is Precision, USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, Trap, Skeet, Action Pistol, SASS, NCOWS, HighPower, FClass, Accuracy Action Matches, Sporting Clays, PPC, Carry Gun Matches or what ever the competition...if you avoid one because you can't handle the rules or pressure.....then you are in for a real treat on the street. Just sayin.

 

[JCSR]

No matter if it is Precision, USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, Trap, Skeet, Action Pistol, SASS, NCOWS, HighPower, FClass, Accuracy Action Matches, Sporting Clays, PPC, Carry Gun Matches or what ever the competition...if you avoid one because you can't handle the rules or pressure.....then you are in for a real treat on the street. Just sayin.

TJ isn't the only rule on the street to win the fight?

 

[Trapper Jim]

TJ isn't the only rule on the street to win the fight?

LOL. Yep... much worse odds however with cheesy equipment and no skill set going in ....let alone being scared to compete and perform in various tests.

 

[marvin02]

I have shot USPSA, Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge, Rimfire Falling Steel, trap and some unofficial indoor matches at local ranges that combine USPSA and IDPA rules. The one thing that unified them all is that 99% of the people involved will be helpful.

The second thing I would say to anyone thinking about competition is just go do it. It really takes minimal research to prepare, you don't need a huge investment to start, and you will get guidance and help at the match.

You are really only competing against yourself. Go and learn, practice safe gun handling, and get more familiar and confident with your weapons.

 

[crewchief888]

I have shot USPSA, Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge, Rimfire Falling Steel, trap and some unofficial indoor matches at local ranges that combine USPSA and IDPA rules. The one thing that unified them all is that 99% of the people involved will be helpful.

The second thing I would say to anyone thinking about competition is just go do it. It really takes minimal research to prepare, you don't need a huge investment to start, and you will get guidance and help at the match.

You are really only competing against yourself. Go and learn, practice safe gun handling, and get more familiar and confident with your weapons.

^^^^ this sums it up....

if you are hesitant, you can always go to a match as a spectator. follow a squad around for a day...
thats what i did when i started shooting USPSA 25 years ago. for me, it relieved the "stress" of the 1st match.

as far as equipment goes, a holster needs to cover the triggerguard, and hold the gun securely enough that it wont fall out. for mag carriers, you'll probably want something open topped, and again hold your mags securely enough they wont fall out when you are on the move.
i shoot open div with a single stack 45acp, so my gear will be a lot different than any one elses stuff. i "make ready" with 6 10rd mags on my belt, and an 8rd "barney" mag in my pocket.
i'm currently using a midway usa competition inner/outer belt system, safariland competiton mag carriers and 014 competition holster

 

[cobber]

TJ isn't the only rule on the street to win the fight?

Indeed. Games are fun but uniform scenarios and genre-dictated rules are actually a disservice to learning skills that are applicable to DGU incidents. For instance, it may make sense to drop a partially-loaded mag in a real fight, or break the 180 rule, and presumably there are times when you just gotta sweep yourself getting into the fight. Not all real-world scenarios are laid out like an IDPA stage, where you know exactly where and what the threats are.

Time would be better-spent with an instructor in class.

But some people like competitions and that's fine too.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Indeed. Games are fun but uniform scenarios and genre-dictated rules are actually a disservice to learning skills that are applicable to DGU incidents. For instance, it may make sense to drop a partially-loaded mag in a real fight, or break the 180 rule, and presumably there are times when you just gotta sweep yourself getting into the fight. Not all real-world scenarios are laid out like an IDPA stage, where you know exactly where and what the threats are.

Time would be better-spent with an instructor in class.

But some people like competitions and that's fine too.

Yeah, learning how fast you can go and still be accurate, trigger control, muscle memory, what gear is unreliable, quicker transitions, that's the kind of stuff that will get you kilt in the streets.

 

[Bosshoss]

Indeed. Games are fun but uniform scenarios and genre-dictated rules are actually a disservice to learning skills that are applicable to DGU incidents. For instance, it may make sense to drop a partially-loaded mag in a real fight, or break the 180 rule, and presumably there are times when you just gotta sweep yourself getting into the fight. Not all real-world scenarios are laid out like an IDPA stage, where you know exactly where and what the threats are.

Time would be better-spent with an instructor in class.

But some people like competitions and that's fine too.

Sorry but the firearms safety rules like sweeping yourself don't magically disappear when you get in a defense situation.
The rules of the shooting games(180,etc) don't necessarily apply off the range but the firearms safety rules definitely do.

OK you said:
"Not all real-world scenarios are laid out like an IDPA stage, where you know exactly where and what the threats are."

While I agree 100% with this, a defense situation is very fluid and no two are alike.
A instructor in a class usually runs several drills and scenarios that have the same limitations as a stage in a match.
One of the things I like USPSA over IDPA is the think on your feet aspect of it. You get presented a problem(stage) and you have to figure out the best way to solve it.

Competition or training classes both will help with your gun handling and proficiency with a firearm. The timer in a match adds another level of stress that make you better at reacting and responding when thing go wrong.


Many of the top IDPA and USPSA shooters are also instructors for the military and law enforcement.

Now my opinion on some of the other things in this thread.

"IDPA is more about accuracy and USPSA is about speed. "

Not really true as in IDPA and USPSA and ICORE the person who is the most accurate the fastest wins. Being fast and not getting hits won't work in any game
Their are two scoring tiers in USPSA depending on division and ammo. Major and Minor. Minor puts the accuracy level required up quite a bit over those shooting Major power factor. The penalty for hits not in the A zone on the target are twice as much shooting minor as those shooting Major.

There are many different divisions in USPSA and IDPA and to get started you don't need to worry about them just show up and shoot. You will be put in whatever division needed at the match. Don't worry about what the other shooters are shooting and have fun.

Their will be some expensive guns at these matches but that is NOT a requirement to have fun and they are not in your division anyway so don't worry about equipment at least at first.
Their will be some tremendous shooters at the matches but they started the same place as every other new shooter - with their first match. Don't worry about them just focus on being safe and having fun.

Those of us that have been doing this for a while have seen it all so don't worry about making mistakes and screwing up as we have all done it or seen it done before.
We will stress SAFETY and make sure you are safe.
The matches have a lot of great people and we have fun all while shooting and handling our guns.

 

[Bosshoss]

Yeah, learning how fast you can go and still be accurate, trigger control, muscle memory, what gear is unreliable, quicker transitions, that's the kind of stuff that will get you kilt in the streets.