Montana man convicted after shooting in his garage.

[looney2ns]

Montana man convicted in exchange student's death

 

[88GT]

Don't wanna get shot? Don't trespass and steal. Pretty simple.

 

[Bfish]

Sounds like there were some wrong things on each side of the fence here but had he not been where he didn't belong it simply wouldn't have happened. I do feel for the guy however with a 10 year minimum sentence... Hopefully the appeal process will get him somewhere.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Is this the guy that was lying in wait and shot into the garage without seeing the burglar?

 

[mrortega]

I accepted the grand jury decision in Ferguson, MO and I'll accept this jury's too. They heard all the testimony and evidently believed that the homeowner did set things up so that he could do a shoot. The home owner was the thug here. We don't need people imposing the death penalty on someone in a non-capital simple burglary. Without seeing the testimony it appears the kid was indeed intent on stealing but there is nothing to indicate that he intended to enter the house and harm anyone in there.

 

[hopper68]

I accepted the grand jury decision in Ferguson, MO and I'll accept this jury's too. They heard all the testimony and evidently believed that the homeowner did set things up so that he could do a shoot. The home owner was the thug here. We don't need people imposing the death penalty on someone in a non-capital simple burglary. Without seeing the testimony it appears the kid was indeed intent on stealing but there is nothing to indicate that he intended to enter the house and harm anyone in there.

I couldn't have said it better. Guess we won't be going rioting tonight, may have to stick to Christmas caroling.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I couldn't have said it better. Guess we won't be going rioting tonight, may have to stick to Christmas caroling.

It's a German exchange student, probably not many that identify with him.

 

[Birds Away]

I think this was, based upon what I have read, the correct decision. Had it not been premeditated I would feel differently.

 

[hopper68]

It's a German exchange student, probably not many that identify with him.

I meant the unjustly convicted gun owner. But had the shooter gotten off there could have been anti-american riots in Germany.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

He just wanted to shoot him. Could have taken his picture, detained him for arrest, or simply warned him to stay away. Too bad. Both sides wrong.

 

[jsgolfman]

So, this differs from police using a bait car how? If a car thief was killed attempting to steal a bait car, would the officers get 10 years?

 

[hopper68]

So, this differs from police using a bait car how? If a car thief was killed attempting to steal a bait car, would the officers get 10 years?

Police are there with the intent to arrest, this guy was there to shoot somebody. And if an officer shot a person for just getting into a bait car, yes, jail time.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, this differs from police using a bait car how? If a car thief was killed attempting to steal a bait car, would the officers get 10 years?​

This differs in that Montana Man was committing Murder. If Montana Man had said "stop in the name of the law" and not fired a shotgun four times, then it would be identical.

If you are talking about the StakeOut Squad kind of operation, then the robber has forfeited his life by committing the forcible felony and it is right and proper to kill him.

 

[Stschil]

This differs in that Montana Man was committing Murder. If Montana Man had said "stop in the name of the law" and not fired a shotgun four times, then it would be identical.

If you are talking about the StakeOut Squad kind of operation, then the robber has forfeited his life by committing the forcible felony and it is right and proper to kill him.

Can I get some clarification on that Counselor? In the 'bait car' scenerios the car is most often left unsecured, with the keys either in the ignition or in clear view. Are you advocating the shooting of simple car theives?

 

[Denny347]

So, this differs from police using a bait car how? If a car thief was killed attempting to steal a bait car, would the officers get 10 years?

We are not allowed to shoot a person for stealing a car. We are not allowed to set it up for the purpose of shooting the suspect. We are not allowed to stay hidden and when the suspect enters the car, fire into it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Can I get some clarification on that Counselor? In the 'bait car' scenerios the car is most often left unsecured, with the keys either in the ignition or in clear view. Are you advocating the shooting of simple car theives?

I don't believe so. I think what he's saying is if you sat in a car, across the street and the college student then forced his way into the house, then it's a forceable felony and force may be reasonably expected. But when you intentionally bait somebody in and tell the neighbors you're trying to lure somebody into your home to "get them" (or whatever he said)...big difference.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Can I get some clarification on that Counselor? In the 'bait car' scenerios the car is most often left unsecured, with the keys either in the ignition or in clear view. Are you advocating the shooting of simple car theives?

There is a distinction between thieves and robbers. Armed Robbery is a forcible felony. Theft is not.

No one is advocating shooting thieves. Because, as we see from the Montana Man case, you will go to prison for shooting thieves.

If you are unfamiliar with the NYPD Stakeout Squad and their actions against robbers (not thieves), I can recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Jim-Cirillos-Tales-Stakeout-Squad/dp/1581606494

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Can I get some clarification on that Counselor? In the 'bait car' scenerios the car is most often left unsecured, with the keys either in the ignition or in clear view. Are you advocating the shooting of simple car theives?

Bait car isn't a stakeout. He's talking about something like having an officer hidden in the liquor store that's been targeted for multiple robberies.

 

[PKendall317]

This is what happens when you take Joe Biden's advice.

 

[Stschil]

There is a distinction between thieves and robbers. Armed Robbery is a forcible felony. Theft is not.

No one is advocating shooting thieves. Because, as we see from the Montana Man case, you will go to prison for shooting thieves.

If you are unfamiliar with the NYPD Stakeout Squad and their actions against robbers (not thieves), I can recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Jim-Cirillos-Tales-Stakeout-Squad/dp/1581606494

I haven't read the book and am unfamiliar with the Stake Out Squad, what confuses me is how the subject went from a homeowner who, as it seems, proceeded with malice aforethought to 'get them' to Bait Car operations to Armed Robbery.

Bait car isn't a stakeout. He's talking about something like having an officer hidden in the liquor store that's been targeted for multiple robberies.

Seems to me that we are comparing apples to oranges. Are we discussing the use of lethal force to stop a property crime, burglary, or a crime against a person, armed robbery? Leaving the Castle Doctrine argument aside for the moment, the kid in MN was merely a burglar who walked into a trap set by the homeowner who, as it turned out, was more intent on shooting someone than he was in catching them.